Using Earth's magnetic field to generate electricity.

Anyone know anything about N. Tesla's experiments using the earth's magnetic lines of force to generate electric power?
RD
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On Tue, 4 Jul 2006 16:34:17 -0400, "R.D. Heilman"

I believe NASA has used this in experiments, but dropped it since it actually causes the Shuttle to loose forward energy. "The Space Tether Experiment?"
hth,
tom @ www.FreelancingProjects.com
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wrote:

I visited a museum in Serbia some twenty years ago & I remember seeing a section on Tesla's experiments. Evidently the US had turned over Tesla's papers to that government. I remember illustrations depicting his experiments where he had stretched miles of copper wire across the desert in New Mexico(?) intersecting the earth's force fields at the 90deg. angle as required. But he was "run out of town" before he was able to complete his experiment. However, the curator believed he had succeeded to a limited degree.

RD
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----------------------------
wrote:

------------- Part of the myths surrounding Tesla. The NASA experiment will work but energy has to be put in from the shuttle. The other won't work.
--

Don Kelly snipped-for-privacy@shawcross.ca
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Very true, I don't know how a stationary coil would cut enough lines of flux to generate enough energy to make it worth the time/money.
later,
tom @ www.NoCostAds.com
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wrote:

If I remember correctly, what Tesla had proposed was a concept of biulding massive power generation stations that would "pump" electrical energy into the earth like a giant tank circuit, so the earth's magnetic field would fluctuate on it's own. Then all you would need would be a wire or coil in the correct relative orientation and you could tap off power anywhere.
The flaw in his thinking was that someone would need to generate the power and "pump" it into the earth, but there was no way for them to generate revenue from the users to pay for it. Minor detail to Tesla, major detail to his backers.
Over the years this concept morphed into "free" energy from Earth's magnetic field. It was never free, only the harvesting of it was.
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wrote:

Ohhhhhh.......
I remember something in school, a long time ago, about Telsa researching tranmitting power, througth the air. That sounded crazy, even with knowing about microwave energy. But this induce fluxuating Magnetic sphere, might have sold a few news articles.
Good stuff.
tom
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wrote:

Tesla did in fact work very dilligently on that, building a massive (for the time) structiure called the Wycliff Tower in New Jersey. His idea was to transmitt power eventually to a duplicate tower in Europe. This came after his idea on the electricity transmission through the earth's magnetic field, partly because of the pressure he got to make something commercially profitable. He never finished it though, his backers pulled out before it could be proven. As it turns out, Tesla had grossly miscalculated the amount of energy that could be transmitted that way, and of course he never concerned himself with side effects.
A side result of his experiments is what eventually lead to radio wave transmission, from which Marconi benefitted. Tesla sued him over the rights to claim the invention of the wireless transmitter, and won eventually, but the fact reamins that in Tesla's case it was somewhat accidental, Marconi actually set out specifically to transmit signals like a telegraph.
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Bob Ferapples wrote:

It was Wardenclyffe, not that that matters.
Long before the tower he demonstrated a model submarine remotely controlled by radio, a sensation at the time. My impression is that the patents included using resonant circuits to permit multiple chanel communication. I think the final patent battle was Marconi against the US government, and the US used Tesla's patents to defeat Marconi.
Interesting person, in both positive and negative ways. When I was in school all I heard about was the Tesla coil, but he had all the basic patents on AC motors and a lot of other AC apparatus.
bud--
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wrote:

One thing that impressed me about Telsa, he didn't like T. Edison. I was originally impressed with him, and glad to meet him, but later dispised him. It seems that in a conversation, Edison mentioned that he had some electrical differculties with power generation, and would give a large sum of money to the person who found the solution. Telsa, worked on the problems, and gave them to Edison. Edison was greatful, and gave no money, he told Telsa he should learn to understand American humor.
For us, good thing they had a falling out. If Telsa became another cronnie of Edison, his creative personality might have been hindered.
later,
tom @ www.NoCostAds.com
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----------------------------

Tesla breakthroughs- the induction machine and polyphase AC were not given to Edison. Edison was fully wrapped up with his DC systems. Westinghouse got the benefit of Tesla's work at a royalty of $1 per KW and he gave this up when Westinghouse was in difficulty. Edison fought tooth and nail against AC, and managed to convince the NY state penal authority that AC was more lethal and shoould be used for the first electric chair. So goes the story.
--

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Imagine if DC got more entrenched if Telsa went to work for Edison? I only have documentries to go on since I'm not that old, but Edison was a tyrant to his workers.
Edison got beat up early in life for getting zero bucks for his inventions, and then got 'refocused' into a meaner person over time.
:(
tom
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I thought it was the opposite; NYS chose AC since it was more lethal and Edison said, "See!".
--
Keith

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krw wrote:

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krw wrote:

Edison made his lab available to test electrocution of dogs and other assorted animals including horses. I think it has been shown the major proponent of AC for electrocution was paid, at least in part, by Edison. The first actual electrocution of a person was horribly botched.
The 1st major success for AC was the 1893 Chicago World's Fair/Columbian Exposition. Westinghouse won the contract for major electrical using Tesla's AC system. It was a marvel - electric lights everywhere. Westinghouse had to invent a new relatively short life light bulb to avoid Edison's patents.
The real major success, of course, was AC generation at Niagra Falls with high voltage transmission to Buffalo NY.
Tesla said something to the effect of if Edison had a base in science knowledge he could have found a successful light bulb filament material a lot faster.
A lot of Tesla's later ideas were somewhat bizarre. It would be nice to see a good scientific analysis of them (like Wardenclyffe and earth resonance). Some of them have been picked up by pseudoscience nuts. Substantially lost to history and engineering are Tesla's base patents for AC and radio.
bud--
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Hello, all, and I just thought I would jump in here since I am employed by an activity that considers Edison a founding father. Edison's preference for a system of D.C. power generation and distribution is a matter of record and has already been discuseed in this thread. What we should remember is that Edison was an inventor that did not concentrate solely on power generation and distribution apparatus (even though many of his inventions required electric power). Tesla, OTOH and Westinghouse were specifically interested in this technology and Tesla in particular could be considered as much an electrical engineer as an inventor. Tesla's explanation of electromagnetic wave propagation, however, would indicate that he did not appreciate/comprehend the work of J.C. Maxwell.
In the realm of electrical metrics named for experimentalists and inventors Edison has been ignored. Ditto for Benjamin Franklin. In the international system (SI) of units the "Tesla" is used for magnetic flux density and we also have the "bel" (after A.G. Bell) to denote power ratio. Sincerely,
John Wood (Code 5550) e-mail: snipped-for-privacy@itd.nrl.navy.mil Naval Research Laboratory 4555 Overlook Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20375-5337
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Here's some interesting information from a foreman who was supervising the installation of a new 240-KVolt, three-phase Delta transmission line here in Florida to beef up the utility system before the next major hurricane:
The three lines were, at this time, not energized but were tied together ( with what appeared to be humongous clip leads) for the reason that the swaying catenary of cable, moving in the earth's magnetic field, could generate significant and lethal voltages. The unenergized cables were contiguous for about three miles and the span between support points was about 500-800 feet.
The foreman commented that men have been killed from the EMF generated by similar, non-energized, new installations.
Maybe. . . but I suspect that there's a lot of inductive coupling going on with respect to existing, energized lines running parallel to the new installations as well as energy picked up from lightning discharges (IMHO, the primary danger here in "lightning alley.) A few miles is a pretty good antenna! Anyone heard of this phenomenon?
Pixmaker in FLL ==========================It's not the heat, it's the humidity! ========================== (Think the humidity's bad? You should watch us vote!) ==========================
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A cable like that could pick up and hold a charge until it is discharged through something. This would not be induced from the earths magnetic field.
Josh
Pixmaker wrote:

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A few days ago, I stopped beside the highway to talk with the foreman of a line crew that was stringing a new, 240-KVolt transmission line on 80-foot concrete towers. I noticed that the three transmission cables (not yet energized) were tied togetherand grounded with what looked like humongous clip leads. I thought this was a routine safety measure to avoid injury if a new cable might accidently fall onto the pre-existing, 130-KVolt lines.
The foreman explained that, with 3-5 miles of continuous cable swaying in the wind (the supports were about 600 feet, or more apart) there was significant danger from voltages generated by the cables' motion within the earth's magnetic field. In fact, he said, men have been killed when these new cables are not grounded.
I can understand that a few miles of high-line is a really serious antenna but didn't think that a one-turn (or half a turn) coil could generate any real energy. It seems to me that the wind motion would cause a polarity reversal with each reversal of cable direction thus cancelling any serious generation. Also, there's a good probability that different catenary spans would move in out-of-phase ways, with further cancelling effects.
Then there's the possibility of inductive coupling with existing high-voltage cabling parrallel to the new lines. Now that, I think, could pick up some significant energy! And what about lightning in the area?. I would guess there could be some serious voltage pulses generated, especially here in "lightning alley, USA." (South Florida.)
Funny how my brain works. . . (funny peculiar, not funny ha ha.) I wonder if it is possible, within reason, to build a pickup coil big enough to string in your back yard and (if you lived beside one of those easements containing a dozen or so transmission lines at about 250,000 Volts) pick up enough energy to provide power for lighting, etc.
I live in a condo quite a long distance from any high lines so my experimental urges must remain frustrated. But I think it's a kinda fun idea! I'm many decades removed from my courses in electromagnetic induction so the local utility is safe from my poaching.
Has anyone any practical experience with this matter? Or was that old guy running that crew just having a little fun with me? What do you think?
Pixmaker in FLL ==========================It's not the heat, it's the humidity! ========================== (Think the humidity's bad? You should watch us vote!) ==========================
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I suggest that the foreman doesn't know what he is talking about, or, more likely is having a bit of fun with you. First of all, the voltage that can be induced from one end of the line to the other (not to ground) depends not only on the length of conductor but also on the strength of the magnetic field component which is perpendicular to the motion and the line -as well as the velocity of movement- the latter two are negligable. The fact that polarity reversed means nothing except that the miniscule signal which might be generated would be AC. Your comment about different sections being out of phase is on target.
Two factors do exist.
a) the pre-existing lines and inductive coupling to these lines can result in lethal voltages induced. One ground point is fine, but when somebody makes a second ground point, there is a problem. The procedure you mention is common when work is done on a "dead" line in the vicinity of live ones.
b) ungrounded lines, just floating, even when not near any others, can pick up static charges from charged clouds moving about. No problem unless you are the path to ground.
Oh yes, one can get an inductive coupling to a transmission line, preferrably a single phase rural line (polyphase lines tend to cancel their fields) and with a large enough loop closed at a far enough distance from the line, run a light bulb. However the output voltage isn't constant, and,depending on line current, you may have a dim bulb (say less than 50V) or have a problem with a bulb blowing up and the socket flashing over (at, say 1000V+), Of course if you escape being killed, you can end up in court with a charge of theft. Cheaper, safer and more reliable to simply connect to the grid legally.
--

Don Kelly snipped-for-privacy@shawcross.ca
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