Group is dead other than Key fighting with trolls

The problem is that nobody wants to talk about real industry issues on 'an open forum', even though most of the things we want to discuss are already out there for anyone that can use a search engine. The forum has this aura going where average folks are just tired of getting verbally stomped and nitpicked.

Some things I'd like to see are:

1. New vendor product experiences, good bad gotcha
2. Tool experiences, I bought this and it worked better than hoped, or it broke the 1st time i used it, etc
3. Tricks and tips, not necessarily defeating, but certainly installation or repair related
4. Future directions, innovations and growing markets
5. A bit more openess toward fellow tradesman (not just known buddies), often codes or data cannot be used without supporting tools anyway ...

read about the new bump proof Master deadbolt? the key will NOT at ANYTIME work from the outside, once its set on the inside..

reading about it, to ME its AMAZING it got past life safety issues.. anyone inside, in an emergency, just lost the door.. (this is for getting IN only..) --Shiva--

I have not heard of this, and yes life safety would keep me from using it on my doors! (Hmmm, maybe for the shed out back where i keep the...)

Do you know the model number, or have a link to show us?

- David

How is the key cylinder on the outside being disabled a life safety issue? Obviously there is egress from the inside because if there isn't and the key won't operate the lock from the outside either the lock would be inoperable in all regards.

That doesn't make sense. You just said " the key will NOT

No kidding. Security by obscurity is a real nuisance huh? The irony is all the forums are open forums. All it takes to access any of them is to set up virtual shop as a locksmith. A few hundred bucks for a yellow pages ad and buy from a few suppliers and you can access clearstar or any forum you want. Most it doesn't even take that much effort. People who think any of the online forums are secure are deluded and have no idea of what security is.

even though most of the things we want to discuss are already

Yep.

The forum has this aura

Not that many people get stomped and nitpicked except people who don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Probably OK.

Getting into possible violations of the secret squirrel code now.

Nope could be used for defeating.

You are way outta line now fella. Code info on a public forum? Turn in your secret squirrel decoder ring to ALOA ASAP do not pass go do not collect $200.

I still don't see where you guys are getting life safety from. If access from the outside is disabled how is that a life safety issue? Life safety just requires easy egress from the inside.

unfortunately, no.. was a brief blurb in 1 of the 2 lock magazines.. and it will NOT help you on a shed, must be set from inside.. --Shiva--

house, locked up, these new locks installed and SET.. person has heart attack/stroke/whatever and CANNOT open the door FROM the inside.. you MUST get in, BUT, the OS key part of the lock will NOT unlock the door. and how do you get IN? which window is big and close enough to break OR how fast can you bust the door????? pick- seconds might matter.. the article said the OS key was DEACTIVATED..if you HAD a key, it would not unlock the door.. this now become a fail SECURE.

--Shiva--

goma.

Somewhat similiar to an ILCO deadlocking night latch-push the button up-cylinder is deactivated-no pick-no bump-no nothing. goma.

When used in a commercial environment where a room is being secured, if you have an emergency inside and it happens to be a metal door with a solid frame. Could be trouble for occupants, and a liability for the company...

LOL, I was kidding about the shed :-)

It is just that you didn't stay away long enough.

Try a year or two at least.

LOL you are complaining that the lock is actually secure. Now that's just too freaking funny. Locks are supposed to keep people out that's what they are for. Why would anybody who responed to an emergency be expected to have a key anyway?????? As far as keyhole oriented bypass methods, picking bumping whatever, this lock is no more a life safety issue problem than any high security lock designed to thwart keyhole oriented bypass attempts. Your complaint in a nutshell is that the lock actually works at its intended function. Based on your postion everybody should hang a key outside next to the freaking door knob in case they have a heart attack so the paramedics and everybody else can get in. Your trade never fails to make me laugh so hard I can barely breathe.

It wouldn't help you in the least. Your silly security by obscurity arguments are so fatally flawed anyone can tear them apart. Me or somebody else. Either way they are hopelessly discredited.

And how about if a disgruntled employee uses a key for a generic run of the mill no security POS lock in a commercial environment and walks in with an AK-47 and kills all the employees? I have read about this or similar happening a lot more than I have heard about anybody dying of a heart attack or whatever because medical personel can't get in the door. There is no such thing as 100% fail safe safety. Besides from the link that was posted it looks like this lock is designed for the residential market and it is a very good idea.

Tim, It is a good idea that has been around for years-Some will think it is new because Master uses phrases like "Unique" and "Innovative". Deadlocking nightlatches have been made for years-there are many of them that are 50-60 years old and still in usable service.(replaced cylinders on some) However, In the residential scene, some may not want that option.Perhaps they want to check on grandma once in a while.Or they are worried that someone could not get in the residence quick enough. If you have elderly parents, you would know exactly what I am talking about.

Or maybe they have children who have a key to the door and do not want to get up and let them in every time.

If a residential customer has concerns about the way the lock works-then THERE IS A LIFE SAFETY ISSUE.

And life safety codes cover alot more than "just having free egress from the inside" Take my word for it-There is a WHOLE LOT MORE. More than this server will hold.

goma.

Life safety issues and security issues wildly differ, HOWEVER life safety takes precedence especially in residential issues --Shiva--

Residential sales have been few and far between.

Not really their decision unless grandma has been ajudicated incompetent she can do any damn thing she pleases, including put a secure lock on the door to keep the snooping little kiddies out.

Or they

And so they gave the local EMS a key a copy of which is in every freaking ambulance?? Do you bother to think about these arguments before you start babbling them out?

But you don't give a shit if some crackhead bumps open grannies Kwikset and bashes her skull in huh?

Then don't buy the damn thing.

Then one more time DON'T BUY THE DAMN THING.

You guys are like a bunch of old women. Life safety codes with regard to residences don't mean shit. The homeowner can do any damn thing they want and who is even going to know about it? By your rationale nobody would sell double cylinder deadbolts because there is a life safety issue yet vitually every single lock company that makes deadbolts sells them and they block egress from even the inside without a key. The supposed life safety issues with the product at issue are next to none. Far far less than any double cylinder deadbolt millions of which are in use all over the USA.