Re: Bike Lock Can Be Picked With a Pen

"Putyourspamhere" snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in message
the exploit,
the case.
yea, and I told him they were...
Reply to
Key
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As far as I know a Chicago 'Ace' has various anti-pick refinements that make it secure for its vending, etc applications. If it were not for these refinements the product would be useless for this purpose.
So there seems to be a perception out there that any tubular lock is just as secure as the 'Ace'. Kryptonite would be better off using a 4 pin cylinder with a decent paracentric keyway and preferably with a few mushroom drivers. Even better a 5 pin cylinder and select differs with a fairly deep cut on one of the front pins and a shallow cut on one of the rear pins.
Reply to
Peter
Actually, that's not true. What you said to him when he asked if the NY lock & chain was susceptible to the same attack was:
"if what you say is true. why would you sell an inferior product ?
You are on the wrong side of the fence this time. You cannot answer a question with a question and then go on to tell the guy you know what you're talking about. Furthermore, you cannot say if that lock is subject to the same attack or not since you obviously have no idea that it used a different tubular bore size than the lock that can be successfully attacked. Since it does use a different bore size, it follows that the Bic pen, which has a specific diameter, will not be effective in defeating the lock he mentioned.
Years of experience here and in the industry mean nothing unless you apply any knowledge gained along with a little logic and treat people with some respect. This guy asked a legitimate question and you effectively blew him off. You owe him an apology. BBE.
Reply to
Billy B. Edwards Jr.
"Billy B. Edwards Jr." snipped-for-privacy@thelockman.com wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@thelockman.com...
message
to
was
asked if the NY
cannot answer a
you know what
lock is
no idea that
can be
size, it
will not be
unless you
treat people
and you
guess I misunderstood his question. wasn't trying to blow anyone off.
Reply to
Key
Mz:
You are welcome. Another mention that may be of interest to you is that Kryptonite has vaporously promised to make unspecified arrangements to address dealers and users complaints on the vulnerable locks. Evidently, a major bicycle industry event is upcoming at which they may or may not make that vow more tangible.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
snipped-for-privacy@noyahoo.com - no,no,no
Reply to
Edward Hennessey
I must say the people coming here to talk about this in general have made me believe this group still is going strong. Here Here!
Glen
P.S. I was starting to wonder.
They are going to wafers now. They wont buy the Bic bore locks back. Go figure.
Reply to
Glen Cooper
You did post a l"if what you say is true. why would you sell an inferior product ??"
Which to be fair didn't make alot of since considering what he posted. It's obvious he was just asking a question regarding vulnerability of what he had in stock. Besides virtually everybody out there sells an "inferior" product. If you didn't have a low line you'd price yourself right out of business.
Reply to
Putyourspamhere
message
to
was
what he posted. It's
vulnerability of what he had in
"inferior" product. If
of business.
to me, he seemed to be one that wanted to sell a quality product and was concerned about selling an "inferior" product. thats what I was addressing. sorry if I misunderstood...
Reply to
Key
If that's what you got from it I don't think you misunderstood but what you wrote came off pretty much like "So why do you choose to sell an inferior product?" No matter. It's all good.
Reply to
Putyourspamhere
Latest news is that Kryptonite is setting up an exchange program.
Personally... I'm still confused. Looking at my standard pens, and looking at my U-locks, I don't see a size match. Are the locks at risk ones which used the "miniature" version of that cylinder (which I've always considered inferior), or are people using a different pen than any of the ones in my desk, or is there some sort of force-fit going on?
Reply to
Joe Kesselman
thats what I wondered.. seeing a standard ace, HOW??? something must be different in certain models
--Shiva--
Reply to
--Shiva--
Checked my own Krypto. They do seem to use a slightly smaller key than other locks of that style I have on hand; I'm not sure whether they're undersized or the others are oversized, but I suspect the former.
Still not small enough to make this as simple as is claimed, unless people are using different pens than the ones I have on hand or are modifying the pen (which may be what the hammering shown in some videos achieves).
I can see how it might work, though -- it attacks a fairly well known vulnerability in the most primitive version of this lock. One question is why Krypto didn't feel a need to use a better mechanism.
Important point: The Kryponite "insurance policy" is still in effect. If, like me, you purchased their lock as much for that as for the actual protection, it's still worth using -- even if you use other locks alongside it.
Reply to
Joe Kesselman
I really think Art made an interesting point about the limits of "security" through obscurity.
Did anyone in this newsgroup know about the vulnerability of this type of lock to the recently publicized defeat before the defeat became public?
Certainly, if people had known about the pickability of the Kryptonite lock they would have purchased a different product. Kryptonite would have modified their lock and problem solved.
I think maybe the use of the Bic pen to do the picking is an especially newsworthy touch. It has that certain common quality. "Just grab a Bic pen and you can open any Kryptonite." It's almost like if someone found a security crack in MS Windows using any available solar powered calculator or something.
Reply to
Dave Jones
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What the hell are you talking about? Did you read the dudes post?
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Reply to
Will Watts
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So does everybody else on here. They all feel sorry for the old nut so they defend him though.
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Reply to
Will Watts
All locks (AFAIK) are pickable - in principle. The question is about how easy they are to pick.
"Tubular" locks, are similar to other pin tumbler locks except that the pin chambers are arranged in a circle, rather than in a row. Anyone can look at the tools used to pick tubular locks - there are tens of thousands of hits on the web - and see that they all have a cylindrical end - i.e. something vaguely resembling the cylindrical body of a Bic pen.
I don't work on tubular locks, and wasn't aware of the specific match in size between *some* of these and the Bic pen - but apparently there is a match and there are some design aspects of some locks which lets the pen tube work in the same manner as a tubular lock pick.
Yes! The newsworthyness has been apparent. I just did a search engine query and found over 5,000 hits!
> ...
Reply to
Henry E Schaffer
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Dude what the hell are you trying to pull? If that's what you thought then why did you ask him why he was selling an inferior product
"if what you say is true. why would you sell an inferior product ?"
Remember writing that?
How about:
"I did have an answer. one more time just for you. if what you're selling are inferior locks ? you should not be selling them"?
Do you know how to read? Or are you just trying to be a troll?
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Reply to
Will Watts
****
are so many trolls
the old nut so they
no one here has a reason to fell sorry for me. you're broadcasting when you should tune in !
Reply to
Key

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