Standard Titan Key In Knob Lock Problem

wrong blank...the KW1 wont UNLESS its the new design, go DEEP enough in... so the tip pin is not being engaged properly. pin 1, which the KW key has NOT got cut, is 'stuck up in the pin chamber, assuming he left it in place, and pin 6, IF present, is NOT being lifted up

should have pulled the first pin, not the 6th. sounds like he left a spring in place and its jammed into the space between the plug and cylinder wall. IF the key goes in REAL EASY...not hitting ANY pin that stops it, then there is a jammed spring. now its a brute force to get it out...BUT, with difficulty, the plug 'should' turn... may (I have had to use) require pliers to hold the keyblank REAL close... to get it to turn

--Shiva--

After picking the plugs they turned perfectly, very smooth. I spun it around both ways on both locks which shouldn't matter because the normal removal locations dont involve a lot of guess work.. I pulled the locks off the doors because they were open anyway and took the tails out. I tried everything to get the housing to come out. I have done several. Both had the same problem unlike anything tht I've seen.

Would you please explain in detail, the problem. I dont want to get stuck on a simple rekey through lunch and supper. LOL!!

Please explain. I ''''AM''' still a wantoobe. Only 5 years. I need all the help I can get.

This can be a tough profession sometimes. Sometimes I think that I should know more but I don't.

Question I would ask : how did he get the cores back in.. If he had the keyblank in and forced it, he may have damaged the retaining pin/spring and that is now bent/stuck.

Steve

I think that happened Steve. Question, both locks? What I would like to know is how and why. It is something that I think should be focused upon on this group do to the amount of people out there doing simple rekeys that I think should know about this. I only started thinking about this tonite but I think you nailed it.

With tail in turn to left as far as it will go. Look in the keyway. you should see the retainer drop into the slot.

Some lube, and a little vibration should do it, if not break out the hair drier. With the tail out the cylinder should pull at 180 degrees also.

You can also cut a notch in the bottom of the working key I think it is between cuts 1 and 2 if you are using a standard KW key. This way you can tug.

It might be stuck due to crud around the edge of the cylinder or the retainer might not have the spring installed properly.

Grasshopper, you are having a brain fart.

When s standard Kwikset 5 pin key is used to key up a Titan, the key will stop on the bottom sholder, so cut number one on the Kwikset key will be unbder the first hole. So you would drop pin and driver from number 6.

If you key up a 5 pin Kwikset lock to a Titan key, you ignore the first cut on the Titan key and use cuts 2 to 6. This is beacuse the Titan key in the Kwikset plug will stop at the top sholder.

No, I think you are missing something here. Consider this thought exercise:

A Titan Knob is mounted on the door and the cylinder is in your hand. You have keyed it up and have a non-notched key in the cylinder.

You decide you want to pull a "Steve" and force it in. What kind of marks are you going to leave on the face of the lock?

I suggest you would need the mother of all hammers to force the cylinder into the knob. This amount of force applied would be so obvious you would have started your story: "I have this Titan that Someone attempted to drive through the door..."

ok, we are using different numbers for the same thing.,.. I mis named, the ORDER of cuts...

NORMAL KW code labeled keys lists 1-5... with the Titan cut being the 0 space

BUT, using your numbering, then pin 1 is NOT being touched, and pin 6 is not falling to the proper depth due to LACK of cut. this assumes he used the OLD KW1 blank, and not the new. IE- the NON Titan capable blank.

now, if the LOCK is pickable AND TURNS... then the wrong BLANK is the problem. need to be taken OUT, taken apart and see what the heck its pinned to and WHERE. is the problem the blank, or elsewhere... my bet is on the blank.

BTW, if this is a deadbolt- in my experiences, 'sometimes' the cylinder will NOT pull, unless the lock is disassembled as per a normal deadbolt.-even if you are using the 'correct core removal cut key.

part 2... ther IS a new, (seen the keys but not the locks in my area) KW, that takes a totally DIFFERENT core key, like 2 cuts longer? if he has one of these, then the there might be something else wrong.. --Shiva--

Shiva,

Where you are still missing the mark is on how Kwikset made the Titan and the regular Kwikset able to be keyed to each other.

Using the definition of cut number 1 being the notch on the key closest to the bow and the first hole to be the one closest to the outer face of the lock, re-read what I wrote. You would not drop the first pin on a Titan to key it up to a Kwikset key.

P.S. The new Kwikset keys are just Titan Blanks with Kwikset heads.

What I usually do in that case is test the lock with the new key, then remove the plug/key and insert the plug in the turned position, then put the retainer back on then insert it in the lock and spin the plug to lock it back in place then test the key again.

OR - make a spare copy of the key and file the notch below the 3rd cut to make the cylinder removal key with a warding file.

Steve

I have to agree with this one.. there would probably be some visable damage/marks to accomplish this, but I posted this as a "possible" to what happened.. Most likely they damaged the retaining spring so the retainer is no longer spring loaded to come back into the slot.

The retaining pin return springs are missing or otherwise damaged where the retaining pin wont go into the plug when it is turned to release the housing from knob is the only thing I can figure.

That was my first thought too. With the core picked, you should see the piece of metal pop up in the bottom of the keyway as you rotate (somewhere around 120 degrees, IIRC). If it is not popping up, you may be able to snag it with a probe and lift it up at that point.

Daniel

no, I know that... thats ALL thats sold around here... we dont sell Weslock junk, or Weiser, just KW, and cheap chinese clones of it. using the OLD keys, they cannot have a KW blank in the system...but can use KW locks. you could make an interesting master key out of this... the OS door is a titan, and use that for all the inside doors-with KW locks on them, and also pin them to the normal 5 cut blank. so, a 'door key', plus a Titan Master key. wouldnt LIKE IT, but its a possible.

the titan has all the pins... you have the problem with the KW in the Titan, which I HAVE seen done, doesnt work good, but seen it done.. and then you drop a pin in the Titan. Amazing how often the hardware folks can screw things up.

correct, but, I just bought 500 new blanks and they are the OLD keyhead still, so, the possibility exists that he has a old KW, and is trying to use it in a Titan. Seems the suppliers are emptying out older stock still. --Shiva--

I saw a Titan locking knob a couple years ago. Which had a seven pin "core removal" key, which was longer than the usual key.

Try pull the knobs off the door, and take the center shaft (the locking shaft) and see if they come apart, now. Use customer's key.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but it gives you another idea.

Tried that. I pulled out the shaft so the plug would rotate 180 degrees after picking the lock, nothing. The housings are just stuck in the lock bodies on both of the locks. I also tried turning the plug to the other removal position, nothing. I impressioned a key last night and duped it onto a core removal blank to try and bust them loose, nothing. I tried tapping the back of the plug with the shaft out while turning and wiggling the removal key that I made, nothing. They're just stuck. I can understand one lock but both? I'll see if I can see the retainer pin move, it has to be the retainer pin springs not moving into the plugs.