Another battery charger question

Thanks for all the replies and knowledge. My other battery charger is a one pound electronic machine. It works OK, supplies 2, 6 and 12 amps
and has all sorts of buttons and lights! What it won't do is charge a totally dead battery...thus repairing the old Craftsman. It displays: "BAD BATTERY" and I have to hook-up jumper cables from another vehicle to get a few percent of a charge to get the electronic charger to work.
I also confess I don't know enough about electronics. Is there a good book to start with that isn't too stupid yet not over my head? I think I can still learn stuff.
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Tom Gardner wrote:

I went through this when stranded at a remote cabin with a car with a dead battery. Most of these smart chargers have some stupid secret code to "rejuvenate" a totally dead battery. You may have to push multiple buttons, hold for several seconds or whatever, and no way to figure it out without the manual. I had to play with that unit for MANY minutes before I was able to translate the Chinglish instructions into the right buttons to make it start charging.
Jon
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wrote:

The reason they won't charge a dead battery is the "polarity protection" circuit to prevent hooking the charger up backwards and doing damage to either the charger, the battery, or both.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Right, but if you are out in the woods with a dead car battery, you need it to pump a little current into the battery to start the voltage rising. If you get the load that drained the battery turned off, and put a couple hundred mA into it, it won't hurt anything. if the polarity is indeed wrong, the alternator diodes will keep it from rising above about 1.4 V. If the polarity is right, the voltage will keep rising, and eventually the charger will decide to let you have rated current into the battery.
Jon
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wrote:

If you are out in the woods with a dead car battery the limitations of an automatic charger don't matter. Revive the battery with another vehicle or a portable jump starter. jsw
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wrote:

If the second battery has a reasonable charge and the dead battery isn't shorted, it SHOULD work every time.
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 13:01:10 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@krl.org wrote:

That sounds like it should be a winner.
There may be an "idiot's guide", but I'd hesitate to recommend it without reviewing it.
--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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Gunner Asch wrote:

I saw a link to a torrent of electronics books:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:26D4913F5C969A9744EA128BF659FBE0BE607D99&dn=Electronics%20Collection&tr=dht%3a%2f%2f26D4913F5C969A9744EA128BF659FBE0BE607D99
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Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
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I learned electronics in the Army, without textbooks or homework, which was nice. There are some courses on the Internet and Radio Shack has books, but I doubt you'll find anything that takes you from beginner to fixing an antique battery charger. jsw
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 16:44:15 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

You never know, though. With old farts like Tawm...there may be enough other, and relevant, experiences to make connections.
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which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air.
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On 2/26/2014 4:44 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

The charger was bought new in '75...is it an antique now? I have a LOT of miles on it...consider the cars I had in college...
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http://w3hwj.com/index_files/RBSelenium2.pdf
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On 2/26/2014 8:32 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Good article! Thanks!
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"Tom Gardner" wrote in message

Comparing to piping, hydraulics, fluidics, pneumatics...
Volts are pressure Amps is flow Resistance is opposition to flow, a restriction in the line. Power (watts) is the product of flow and pressure.
Rectifiers are like check valves. capacitors are like storage tanks, accumulators or air tanks. transistors are like pilot operated valves
AC would be kind of like a piston pump with no check valves, the power goes one way and then the other. So. using this back and forth fluid could drive a piston one size that is connected to a different size piston, either increasing pressure and decreasing volume, or increasing volume and decreasing pressure. That would be kind of like a transformer, it takes alternating current to make it work. So if you transformed your pumps force and pressure, it could be changed after the transformer by adding check valves at that point.
The old fashioned battery charger transforms the line voltage to a lower voltage at a higher current. Then a rectifier causes it to flow only one way into the battery.
Magnetic field going through a wire induces a voltage in the wire, not sure what that would compare to in hydraulics. The magnetic field inducing voltage has to do with transformers, motors, inductors, antenna, and other.
RogerN
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On 2/26/2014 9:20 PM, RogerN wrote:

Good analogies Roger!
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The water analogy of pressure = voltage, flow = current is useful when you are first learning about Direct Current circuits, but it falls apart quickly for Alternating Current because moving water's inertia isn't the same as inductance, and we don't have the hands-on intuitive experience with AC reversing flows that we do with DC garden hoses.
The analogy that helps me with AC is imagining the pistons and crankshaft of an engine. The height of one piston represents the constantly changing voltage of one phase of the power line. If it was an equally spaced three-cylinder radial engine the other two pistons would be the other phases. The three pistons (voltages) combine their push in sequence to force a steady circular rotation of the crankshaft, which was Tesla's inspiration for introducing AC to spin motors without needing troublesome brushes.
This makes more sense if you understand sines and cosines.
Residential single-phase 120V is a one-cylinder engine and 240V is an opposed twin, like a BMW motorcycle. Since they can hang at top dead center they need a temporary circular push to start in the right direction, the reason why single phase AC motors need starting circuits but three phase ones don't.
.jsw
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On Thursday, February 27, 2014 10:11:23 PM UTC-6, Jim Wilkins wrote:

http://lpsa.swarthmore.edu/Analogs/ElectricalMechanicalAnalogs.html
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:35:40 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

The problem with gas is that it's compressible. The result is you lose the pressure x flow = voltage x current = power analogy, which holds for liquids, but not gases.
--
Ned Simmons

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the problem with liquids is they do no compress. You can always run more current though a conductor and the "speed of electricity" doesn't change. In that respect, current is more like a gas.
They're all analogies, but the gas one seems to have fewer holes than the liquid one.
If you try to model a capacitor with a tank and then use liquids or gasses to represent a difference in potential of the charge, the liquid analogy doesn't work.
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On Mon, 3 Mar 2014 18:26:21 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

I can't think of a property of electricity that's analogous to compressibility. Do you have one in mind?

If you increase the flow of either a liquid or gas thru a pipe the velocity increases, but the liquid's flow increases in a linear fashion - not so for the gas. So I=E/R goes to hell for the gas.

I've never seen an electrical analogy based on gas. Got a pointer to one?

But a hydraulic accumulator makes a good enough for the analogy capacitor.
--
Ned Simmons

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