I'd like to converse with anyone with an Atlas shaper powered by Atlas
3 PH motor and starter. I'm going to run my shaper with 3 PH. Also
interested in buying 3 PH pieces-starter is no. S7-300, starter
bracket (don't know part number) and 1/2 HP motor is no. 2620. I would
like to get some pictures of the bracket for the starter and how it is
mounted on the machine. Thanks. Gary R.
How big a shaper is this which you want three phase to power?
The only Atlas one which I know of is the 7" one, which is
normally single phase 120 VAC for the motor. And that is quite similar
to my Rockwell/Delta/AMMCO one, and not that different from the South
Bend one. (IIRC, the South Bend is the one which has its own built in
oil pump instead of needing a trip round all the GITS oil cups before
running. :-)
Do you already have three-phase for your shop? If not, you can
run it from a VFD and not need a starter. And the starter could be
mounted anywhere within reach anyway. No real need to mount it on the
machine.
Enjoy,
DoN.
DoN,
I've been using 3 PH for many years. This is one of those 'I want to
be different ideas'. Most people don't want to deal with 3 PH so I
thought it might be easier to acquire these pieces because users might
want to get rid of them. I have a manual starter that I think is the
one used by Atlas-its a Cutler-Hammer piece. The motor is pretty
straight forward since Atlas put their name on it. I would like to
acquire one of these. This is part of my metalworking enjoyment. Gary
R.
O.K. So it is now clear that you really want the plain and
simple three phase with starter.
This is really the litte 7" shaper? You won't need that big a
motor for that. Not even a need for reversing, unless you want jogging,
which is easy enough to do by hand on a 7".
Sorry that I don't have the pieces you need. Not sure that
there were ever very many of those systems made with three phase.
Good Luck,
DoN.
I actually saw an Atlas shaper with a 3-phase motor at a school
auction once,
was a fractional horsepower item IIRC, like 1/2 horse. Motor was a
proprietary thing,
would have taken a lot of work to fit a standard frame single phase
motor. Lots of pieces
missing, so not that great a deal. Same auction also had a Delta
scroll saw with a 1/4 horse
3-phase motor on it, same deal, proprietary motor. Smallest 3-phase
motors I've ever seen. I
guess whoever specced the things to start with wanted the same type of
plugs in the whole shop.
Had a small Baldor grinder, was 3-phase, too. Guess the O.P. should
have been there, although
the stuff didn't go cheap. One bidder on the scroll saw didn't even
know what 3-phase was when I
mentioned it. "Whazzat?" Guess he thought I was trying to discourage
bidders.
Stan
Looks like eBay will be my best source for the motor. I'm a bit
surprised that no one has responded that owns a 3 PH powered shaper.
Either these users are rare or I'm not reaching them. I'm guessing the
manual starter is the harder piece to find so I'm glad I have
something close (maybe exact). 1 PH Atlas motors show up on eBay quite
often so a 3 PH listing should show up - staying optimistic. For now I
have a brand new in the box Baldor that will get me going. The shaper
needs a good cleaning so that will take some time. Maybe by then an
Atlas motor will show up. Thanks for the replies. Gary R.
There's really NO advantage to 3-phase in such an application, you
aren't going to be doing instant reversals on a shaper.
The only "advantage", if you see it that way, is making all the plugs
and sockets the same. You'd
probably find 3-phase shaper owners in the 2-3+ hp class. Those would
be big beasts,
NOT originally home shop class like the Atlas. Hook it up to single
phase and start making chips.
Stan
Are you *sure* that the school had not swapped in a three-phase
motor on their own, replacing a single phase motor?
You've seen that one three-phase powered Atlas shaper, but have
you seen a sales brochure which mentions them as being available?
I don't have the manual for that one, but the one for the South
Bend (which was the one with a built-in oil pump) only says this about
the motor:
===================================================================== "MOTOR required is 1/3 or 1/2 h.p. 1725 r.p.m., and is mounted
on a cradle at the back of the shaper. Power is transmitted by
V-belts. A quick acting belt tension release is provided for
easy shifting of the belt to change speeds. All V-belts and
pulleys are enclosed in substantial metal guards."
====================================================================And the switch is not called a "starter" in the manual -- just a
"Switch Box". Two pushbuttons for start and stop, with no room for a
contactor, so it is unlikely to be for three phase.
And I don't remember seeing three phase motors mentioned in the
manual for my Rockwell/Delta/AMMCO.
So -- unless you have seen sales brochures from Atlas mentioning
the availability of a three phase version, I strongly suspect that it
was a modification at the school -- or somewhere in the supply chain for
the school.
Enjoy,
DoN.
=============see
http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlasshaper/
<snip>
Neatly mounted on the rear of the machine, the
self-contained V-belt motor-drive system carried a 1725 rpm
single or three-phase 0.5 hp motor that provided four stroke
rates of 45, 78, 122 and 186 per minute.
<snip>
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/transformers-phase-converters-vfd/cutler-hammer-9115-3-ph-manual-starter-use-atlas-shaper-221831/
<nip>
Bingo-found part no. S7-300 Manual Starter (code ZEBAR) and
no. 2620 for the 1/2 HP 3 PH motor.
<snip>
http://www.eurospares.com/shapers.htm
<snip>
http://www.shinyobjectdesign.com/staff/paul/atlas7b/Atlas%20Manual%20S7B-2.pdf
see upper right page 2
also see
http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/Tools/shapers/Atlas%201937-Shaper.pdf
http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/techman/Atlas%20Shaper.pdf
A proud owner of an Atlas 7B shaper.
-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
George,
Thanks for the research. I have a copy of the instructions and didn't
remember that 3 PH was mentioned. I also own an Atlas shaper and it
came with single phase power.
That said, when I found out Atlas offered 3 PH equipment I made the
decision that I wanted same for my shaper. I get a kick out of posters
questioning the use of 3 PH. Again, its very simple - I want it. I've
had 3 PH in the shop for over 10 years so why not power the shaper
also? Now it may be true that no shapers came from the factory with 3
PH. And if no comes forward I'm on my own. But somebody bought that 3
PH equipment and hopefully somebody used it on a shaper. Atlas might
have even provided written instruction on mounting, etc - wonder if
anything like that is out there, like the single page documents I have
for the rotary table and indexing attachment.
I think when I get this finished I'll post some pictures, etc on the
Yahoo Atlas shaper group.
Thanks for the lively banter. Gary R.
==============================================> "MOTOR required is 1/3 or 1/2 h.p. 1725 r.p.m., and is mounted
==============================================>
Was too neat a job to be aftermarket substitution, motor was marked
"Atlas" besides. Like I said, was a proprietary motor mount.
I think the 3-phase was a seldom ordered option, just happened to be
that in this case the shop teacher/machinery consultant wanted
everything to be 3-phase whether it made sense or not.
I have an AMMCO, it's not much like that particular Atlas at all.
That one was more like an Acorn that I've got pictures of.
Stan
Perhaps the school used them to discourage theft of the tools?
Most thieves would not know what to do with three phase powered tools.
I wonder whether he was the one who won it -- and thus would
have to find out what three phase was? :-)
FWIW -- I keep planning to swap a three-phase motor into my Clausing
12x24" lathe -- and run it from a VFD. But I keep being too
busy *using* the lathe to work on it for that. :-)
Enjoy,
DoN.
Everything went very high at that particular auction, I think that
scroll saw went for like $500, was missing the throat piece and the
table clamp. The shaper was missing most of the small pieces like
handles, clapper, tool post and the vise, went for like $750. Only
bargain was for a really big Powermatic metal cutting bandsaw, must
have had a 36" throat on it and weighed tons. Had about an 1 1/2"
blade on as it stood. Not exactly a home basement piece, was about
12' high, probably used a ladder to change blades. Think it went for
scrap price. Ditto on a mongo Miller three-phase stick welder,
covered most of a pallet and was about 3' high. Couldn't get any bids
on that one. Probably needed its own substation.
Stan
Ouch!
I wonder how big a motor it had? The weird town bylaws say that
a tool in a home can have no more than a 2 HP motor. Not sure whether
it is on the assumption that it will be woodworking tools like a planer,
and trying to keep the noise down, or whether it is trying to minimize
power line dips when things start up in a residential neighborhood.
In any case, I am not pleased. :-)
We have a similar restriction here, though it's buried in the power
companies rules rather than the town's land use ordinances. The power
company reserves the right to refuse service to any single phase
motor, commercial or residential, larger than 5HP, but I've never
heard of them actually invoking the rule. I assume, in our case, it
has to do with power quality on long rural lines.
Most likely in DoN's town, not here. This town has no zoning other
than state mandated shoreline zoning. As I said, the provision is in
the power company's tariffs, not the town's land use regulations.
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