automotive engine boring on a mill

Dec 05, 2004 76 Replies

Please. Having access to better measuring equipment is nice, but that's because it allows one to be *more sloppy* when meeting a given specification, not because it's absolutely required by the laws of physics. If one has to maintain a tolerance of .001", then it can be done by either:

  1. using measuring equipment that is only reliable to .0004", and making sure that the measurement is within .0006";

or

  1. using measuring equipment that is reliable to .0001", and making sure that the measurement is within .0009".

In either case the numbers add to .001". But what a production engineer sees is that if he makes choice #1, he may be saving a few hundred dollars, in getting a cheaper measuring tool, but he may have to rework the entire production machinery (perhaps costing millions of dollars) so as to get the measured errors into a narrower range, without actually improving the delivered accuracy. This is generally a no-brainer: spend the extra money, and get the better measuring tool.

Why stop at a factor of ten? Well, for one thing, it's a nice round number: easy to remember, and easy to use. One can, for instance, add up the possible errors of the chain of calibration quite easily:

10% + 1% + .1% + ... = 11.111...%.

Also, beyond that point the returns diminish very rapidly: if a factor of

20 were used, instead of 10, then the required accuracy of the measuring instrument in the above example would be doubled, but the allowable production tolerances would just move from .0009 to .00095 -- only a 6% improvement.

So the standard factor of ten makes sense: it's about what most people would choose anyway (if they are among the class of people who pay attention to industrial standards); and standardizing puts everybody on the same wavelength.

On the other hand, for an individual doing a one-off project, improving measured tolerances by being more careful might cost a few hours; and the income from a few hours of work might easily be less than the cost of the more accurate instrument.

Tom,

I probly still have a handful of RFQs from them I got about 2 years ago, effector and robotics bits and pieces for a line changeout--ended up our shop got buried in work and we werent able to promise the required lead times and so never did any work for them

Whether to believe it or not I guess is your option........

Cliff,

This "Tom" fellow seems to be saying Anthony is full of s*it when it comes to automotive manufacturing particularily when it comes to pistons, rings, cylinder bores, gaging and the like.

I hope I'm not betraying a trust, but I know from correspondence regarding an article I wrote a couple of years ago that Anthony works for one of the world's premier piston-makers, probably the most sophisticated engineering and manufacturing operations for pistons anywhere.

However, I'm not qualified to judge the degree of his knowledge, although I believe it's considerable.

Ed Huntress

I really don't understand why these threads go the way they do. What happens is that three or four people take differing opinions and start heaping personal insults on each other. The result is that the newgroups ends up losing these people because eventually they become tired of defending themselves. In this case I believe that all that are involved are very knowledgeable and in the long run have so very much to offer to people like me. Why not agree to disagree and let it go? Your personal honor surley can not be put into question by comments on an internet newsgroup. I really don't care if people slam each other to hell over gun issues and politics but pistons and engines are what this news group is all about. Please cut each other some slack and realize this isn't like face to face confrontation in the business world. This is the fuzzy world of the internet and you do not need to be personaly offended by someone you will never meet or debate in the real world. Just keep involved and answer the questions of people who need help everynow and then, like me!!!! Rick

"Ed Huntress" wrote in news:zN%ud.203$ snipped-for-privacy@fe12.lga:

Ed, pistons are only the start :), product lines include blocks, valves, camshafts and valvetrain components, intake manifolds, connecting rods, bearings, rings, cylinders, cylinder liners, filters, and a variety of other engine components.

Yeah, I know. But the subject was pistons. 8:-)

(sorry for the odd emoticon; 'glasses are pushed up on my head today.)

Ed Huntress

Why not stop beating around the bush and just tell the group what you do and where you do it so we may all be enlightened by the source and recipient of your expertise?

Robert

The idea here is that anyone who has a clue already knows Anthony knows what's going on.

Regards,

Robin

At this point there is no doubt that Anthony knows his stuff. However, for the last several pieces of this thread there has been all of this coy talk about his work for the premier piston builder/cam grinder/block manufacturer/manifold maker, blah blah blah... Others are talking about knowing of him, his work and his company, etc. I'm not trying to take anything away from the guy, I'm simply suggesting that if he is so darned proud of the company and its products, why not mention the name so those of us who don't know him, his reputation or his company can be enlightened?

Robert

I don't disagree with you, Robert, but some people here -- including people I've met here and quoted in published articles, whose names you wouldn't connect with the names they use here -- just can't, or don't want to, have their presence here connected with their company or their work.

Like you, I find it frustrating sometimes. But I recognize that some people have that need. That's the way it goes.

BTW, my name really *is* Ed Huntress.

Ed Huntress

Accept no substitutes.

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I'm sure glad I didn't get really obscene in that exchange.

Ed Huntress

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Aww, you did just fine, Ed.

Now, I will leave it up to anyone that following this all to figure out who the real "Mary Rosh" is....

2.5 million DGU my sweet ass!!!

"Siggy" wrote in news:va9vd.29230$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:

Siggy, The fact of the matter is that most of what/how we do things is highly proprietary. When you hold a technological advantage over your competition, you have to maintain that, especially in the vehicle business. Company policy states that any release of that information, no matter how inadvertent, is cause for immediate termination. I have seen them excercise this policy more than once. Since I have a family to support, I feel it in my best interest, and that of my family, to keep my employer out of the newsgroups, since what I may consider proprietary information, and what they might consider proprietary information may not be the same. It just isn't worth the risk. I try, within the confines of that, provide what assistance I can to the folks on the newsgroup, but I will not put my family and my career at risk over a thread in a newsgroup. Those that do know me understand this situation, and I am thankful that they have upheld my request to not mention the company.

Great response, Anthony. I appreciate your taking the time to explain your position / reasoning - it makes all of the sense in the world.

Robert

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