Batteries - EV Conversion

As you observed elsewhere, batteries are a more fundamental problem. At energy/power densities approaching hydrocarbon fuels they take on the character of rocket propellants. There's no easy remedy for that problem, which few people anticipated. I certainly didn't.

Thanks for a most entertaining discussion!

bob prohaska

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What types did you look at?

My remark was intended to be at least somewhat humorous 8-(

Still, I think it's broadly correct. The higher energy/power density batteries have been implicated in numerous mishaps if news reports are to be believed. LiFePO4 is the sole exception, at least to date, and much of the credit likely goes to BMS behavior. A cellphone-sized battery is one thing, a multi- KWH bank quite another.

Admittedly, people were terribly afraid of gasoline in the early days of automobiles, and we got over it. Much of that fear came from the ubiquity of open flames for illumination, which was solved by electric lighting.

Perhaps better BMS and packaging designs can reduce the risk from high-performance batteries. For now, it's a real worry.

bob prohaska

My remark was intended to be at least somewhat humorous 8-(

--------------------------- Zinc + sulfur is both a rocket fuel and a battery candidate.

I was interested in experimental battery technologies as long as they weren't too toxic. An example:

Being spattered with molten Sodium put me off that track.

I received a reply.

PolySpede, "Not a market we are looking at getting into. We have had customers with standard drives and 3 phase squirrel cage motors retro-fitted into vehicles. We do not recommend or provide support for it."

So, if I looked at that idea more seriously I'd be on my own to figure it out.

So, hydrogen is the answer, and Elon was wrong?

I have no idea, and I would be on my own to figure it out.

Polyspede, "Not a market we are looking at getting into. We have had customers with standard drives and 3 phase squirrel cage motors retro-fitted into vehicles. We do not recommend or provide support for it."

I recall my dad saying that in regards to aircraft, automotive, and marine. Interestingly as a US Air Force electronic instrument technician I also recall him saying they sent him to school just for soldering.

Did you know there IS a correct way to strip wire with a knife?

Various responses above in context...

I would have responded sooner, but I was on the road most of the day yesterday visiting my daughter in Tucson for my grand daughter's 2nd birthday. She's so cute.

I recall my dad saying that in regards to aircraft, automotive, and marine. Interestingly as a US Air Force electronic instrument technician I also recall him saying they sent him to school just for soldering.

Did you know there IS a correct way to strip wire with a knife?

Not sure what you're referring to. Can you elaborate?

bob prohaska

Rocket fuel of course. You brought it up.

There is an old video clip where somebody asked Musk about hydrogen vs electric, he replied electric no doubt. I was just trying to find that clip and post it for you, and only found dozens of videos from people claiming Tesla is going to pivot to hydrogen fuel cells.

Ah. As rocket fuel, hydrogen is tops until you have to store it. As electric vehicle fuel you have to store it, then turn it into electricity, which is also difficult/expensive/lossy.

For rockets hydrogen is losing favor to methane, which is easier to store, even if the specific impulse is smaller.

In fact, if one wanted to build a low-emission truck the use of methane, either compressed or liquefied, makes a great deal of sense. That tech is already commercial. And, methane is cheap.

bob prohaska

Rocket fuel of course. You brought it up.

There is an old video clip where somebody asked Musk about hydrogen vs electric, he replied electric no doubt. I was just trying to find that clip and post it for you, and only found dozens of videos from people claiming Tesla is going to pivot to hydrogen fuel cells. Bob La Londe

-------------------------------------------- Alternate energy sources appeal most to those who understand them the least. The only real solution is individual conservation but that answer is unacceptable. I'll know the greenies are serious when I see their laundry drying on clotheslines.

Holy s*it , does that mean we're "serious greenies" ? I think the only item we use the dryer for is sheets/bedding , because the pollen bothers my wife . Added bonus is that our clothes last a lot longer .

Well, folks can make good decisions sometimes for incidental reasons 8-)

Jim's fundamentally correct. I'd not call conservation "unacceptable", but it surely is uncompetetive in the (very) near term.

I too favor clothslines over dryers, unless it's raining and I'm out of clean socks.

bob prohaska

We have a couple of collapsible racks we set up in the bedroom when it's rainy ...

I keep thinking I should get something like that. But, it isn't rainy near often enough around here (Sacramento, CA) to make me remember...

bob prohaska

Jim's fundamentally correct. I'd not call conservation "unacceptable", but it surely is uncompetetive in the (very) near term.

I too favor clothslines over dryers, unless it's raining and I'm out of clean socks.

bob prohaska

--------------------------------------------- Despite disbelievers laundry dries outdoors in winter here in NH, by freeze-drying. Or at least it dries enough to finish indoors.

I keep hoping to develop something patentable though so far my energy innovations have been too simple and easy to copy. I don't think I could patent adapting a sink spray hose to a garden sprayer to shower with water heated on the wood stove, or the way I uncap and clean the chimney from the ground by pulling on ropes. There are extra clotheslines under a 4' deck roof overhang for when rain threatens. I hinged the overhang to the rafters and its outer supports to the handrail so it can swing down vertical for repair on a stepladder.

In fact, if one wanted to build a low-emission truck the use of methane, either compressed or liquefied, makes a great deal of sense. That tech is already commercial. And, methane is cheap. bob prohaska

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But methane is a fossil fuel and a climate change contributor, more so if it leaks. The currently fashionable feel-good is to switch from gas heat to electric heat pumps, ignoring that they revert to costly electric resistance heating in cold New England weather, when solar provides around 10% of its rating under frequent overcast. Massachusetts tries to imitate California.

Also the gas utility grossly overpressurized the pipes and had to dig up and replace them, for which mistake the customers are paying.