Brazing carbide

Feb 18, 2026 Last reply: 4 months ago 26 Replies

I wonder what makes the black flux black as both borax and boric acid are white crystalline solids at room temperature, I have both. I have had brazing flux for brass filler which was pink in the jar, worked fine pretty colour. Boric acid AFAIK is what is used in gas fluxers often used by those that produce fillet brazed frames and gives the flame a green tinge, IIRC the fuel gas is bubbled through the boric acid solution so some is entrained and gives a continuous shield with no solid flux addition required in the joint. I tried a mix I found online which called for them as part of a recipe for preventing/reducing firescale on steel during heat treatment and it didn't seem to work very well, subsequently I got some Condursal Z1100 and that seems to work well, cost more but does what it says on the tin.

Some years ago a skilled blacksmith I know was in contact with some smiths in the US and they raved about some miracle flux they could get your side of the pond but the suppliers wouldn't ship it here. Pre 9/11 one of them travelled to the UK and brought some in his luggage and when the guy I knew tried it he wondered what all the fuss was about as in his experience it was no better than the borax he and others had been using for hundreds or more years for forge welding.

I do know from experience that the silver solder flux I have for tool tips and stainless works better for those materials than the standard flux for steel/brass/copper/bronze etc on stainless.

Yes my other option is stainless tool wrapping foil which I use for some items when tempering/normalising and include some wood inside to scavenge the oxygen remaining which results in just minor discolouration like from tempering, no scale. The Condursal was for use with items to be hardened so I could drop them straight into the quench tank without having to remove the foil.

Yes my other option is stainless tool wrapping foil which I use for some items when tempering/normalising and include some wood inside to scavenge the oxygen remaining which results in just minor discolouration like from tempering, no scale. The Condursal was for use with items to be hardened so I could drop them straight into the quench tank without having to remove the foil.

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I have some of that foil too and use it sparingly on longer items. Short tools go in a soup/vegetable can with the lid not completely removed, so the tool can be extracted with tongs or shaken out above the quench, which if oil is in the door opening of the wood stove.

A can on its side with a floor of charcoal contains a propane torch flame well enough to evenly heat a tool larger than it could in free air. The burning charcoal contributes a lot of distributed infrared. The flame needs to swirl inside the can and have a place to exit, straight in doesn't work so well.

I've got a small Gallenkamp Hotspot kiln bought for enamelling but good for heat treat as it'll go to about 1050C, and a 18" top loader ceramic kiln which gets used for larger pieces such as normalising CRS when required. Both are controlled with PID controllers with thermocouples which are added on and the kilns plug into them and the power controller set to 100%. One is just ramp/soak the other can take more complex heat/soak/cool if required.

The oil quench tank is made from a truck air receiver with the end cut off which forms a lid and can be closed if required such as if the oil caught fire which it hasn't so far. That is heated with a metal sheathed mineral insulated electric element and controlled with a cheap (£15?) mains thermistor controller with the thermistor and exposed lead in a SS sheath to protect it from the hot oil. I remember an episode of 'Forged in Fire' where a guy set his workshop on fire after leaving his quench tank to heat on an open flame heater and it caught fire when the oil expanded and overflowed, I don't want to go there.

I've got a small Gallenkamp Hotspot kiln bought for enamelling but good for heat treat as it'll go to about 1050C, and a 18" top loader ceramic kiln which gets used for larger pieces such as normalising CRS when required. Both are controlled with PID controllers with thermocouples which are added on and the kilns plug into them and the power controller set to 100%. One is just ramp/soak the other can take more complex heat/soak/cool if required.

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That's a better approach with more control.

My enameling kiln draws 2 KW and in an hour would double my average daily electricity use. I try to avoid consuming that much unless there's no alternative (lathe, mill) and use my stock of free firewood instead, trying to develop skill in the old methods on uncritical hobby jobs.

I bought this model of tube furnace minus the controller for about 1% of this price. It draws around 500W warming up and heats the small volume quickly, then its thick insulation holds at low duty cycle.

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The 50mm tube is meant to be Pyrex, I have car exhaust pipe and stainless flange-end sanitary (brewing) tubing for it, if necessary the tube could be evacuated or filled with inert gas. The size was good for tempering a long narrow froe blade of 5160 at 175C, twice for an hour each. I intended it for custom long drills and reamers.

Its thermocouples are Type P (Platinel), a near but not exact match to type K. My on/off controller doesn't have a P setting so I read temperature with a Type K alarm indicator that does. This gear is all from auctions or flea markets and often needed some repair or fiddling to work right. Reseating the socketed ICs fixed the 'broken' 5 channel Type K readout that monitors my wood stove from the kitchen.

It occurred to me when I was posting that last reply that you have to deal with your electrical energy budget issues and that might make you favour a different solution if available, not something I have to think about so much with a 240V 32A supply in the workshop, more in the house.

Looks to be a nice furnace but what you have must be a lower temperature model. 1500C would likely be a Mullite liner and SiC elements. AIUI SiC are fairly easy to control with a phase angle controller and take care of the change in resistance while heating and element ageing.  MoSi2  elements get more involved due to their characteristics  but not required for 1500C usage.

I'd not heard of type P before as never run across one. Here in the UK/Europe R and S are common for higher temperature applications, it seems often US made stuff uses larger gauge K type to provide longer life at elevated temperatures. For the Gallenkamp I use a K, the other furnace I have an N type as more durable at the higher temperatures I may have been using as that one goes to 1300C or would do if I replaced the elements as they're old but it does what I require currently and will make 1100C if needed.

Reseating socketed chips is one I use as well. I've saved a woman I know quite a bit of money as when one of her temperature controllers gave a thermocouple failure alarm I asked if she had pulled the guts and reseated them, she wasn't aware you could do so RTFM. Others offered to sell her a replacement. The Cal Controls ones I and she use and maybe other makes allow the guts to be pulled from the panel mounting which wipes the contacts and they had just become oxidised as only solder coated so that was all that was required to get it working again, it's now part of her yearly service routine. I've seen banks of them on plastic extruder lines so the ability to hot swap the controller guts is useful, saves having to pull the panel apart. IIRC those were on RS485 so the settings could be re-established remotely.

It occurred to me when I was posting that last reply that you have to deal with your electrical energy budget issues and that might make you favour a different solution if available, not something I have to think about so much with a 240V 32A supply in the workshop, more in the house.

Looks to be a nice furnace but what you have must be a lower temperature model. 1500C would likely be a Mullite liner and SiC elements. AIUI SiC are fairly easy to control with a phase angle controller and take care of the change in resistance while heating and element ageing. MoSi2 elements get more involved due to their characteristics but not required for 1500C usage.

I'd not heard of type P before as never run across one. Here in the UK/Europe R and S are common for higher temperature applications, it seems often US made stuff uses larger gauge K type to provide longer life at elevated temperatures. For the Gallenkamp I use a K, the other furnace I have an N type as more durable at the higher temperatures I may have been using as that one goes to 1300C or would do if I replaced the elements as they're old but it does what I require currently and will make 1100C if needed.

Reseating socketed chips is one I use as well. I've saved a woman I know quite a bit of money as when one of her temperature controllers gave a thermocouple failure alarm I asked if she had pulled the guts and reseated them, she wasn't aware you could do so RTFM. Others offered to sell her a replacement. The Cal Controls ones I and she use and maybe other makes allow the guts to be pulled from the panel mounting which wipes the contacts and they had just become oxidised as only solder coated so that was all that was required to get it working again, it's now part of her yearly service routine. I've seen banks of them on plastic extruder lines so the ability to hot swap the controller guts is useful, saves having to pull the panel apart. IIRC those were on RS485 so the settings could be re-established remotely.

--------------------------- I have 200A at 120/240V available if I want to pay for it, this house was built with electric heat for the promised cheap nuclear power we would soon enjoy. My retirement hobby is alternate energy and I practice living on it as much as is reasonable, and recording the usage.

The tube furnace may be the lower temperature model, labels are gone. I grabbed the first picture I saw. The missing original controller was apparently analog with optical sensing of the needle, and calibrated for type K, so the P t/c is a close but not exact match. Like much of my stuff it's from the 1960's.

All my (second-hand) industrial temperature controllers can be removed from the panel mount, mostly to change switch settings such as t/c type. I use some as remote displays of the wood stove. The surplus store sold regular wire cheaply by the pound, t/c wire expensively by the foot. When I explained that the X meant extension wire not suited for making thermocouples they gave me the per pound price on several large spools of shielded and grounded KX which isn't good for much else, and I ran it around the house.

Omega literature suggests using 14 gauge type K for longer life at high temperature. I think R and S are more for short runs within the instrument in the lab.

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