The recent thread "Violent Electric Drill Accident" got me wondering about places like Harbor Freight Tools and their product liability. The local store sells an amazing array of dangerous tools. We all know how shoddy and defective some of them are, and notwithstanding the "electric drill accident", surely there are many cases where a faulty tool hurts somebody. What I cannot understand is how they can run a store and sell, oh, angle grinders for $14.99, since they must be getting sued all the time. So much of their stuff is obviously dangerous, and I don't mean in the usual power- tool-requires-common-sense way, such as the toys they sell for children (100 lb go-kart with no effective brakes!) that you can't buy anywhere else because no American firm could survive the lawsuits. Does the Chinese mafia come to visit if you have a "problem"? Does anyone know how HF is organized and defends itself?
The common method is to make yourself "judgement proof". All profits are expensed out to an "arms length" entity on a monthly basis so the company has no assetts. All property and chattels are leased. No insurance if they can get away with it. Can't get blood out of a stone, so the lawyers take one look, say there is nothing there, and move on.
I doubt that this would work for Harbor Freight. First of all, they have intangible assets such as their 'good name'. Secondly, if they could not pay off a big judgment, the court might order them to be sold at auction to satisfy the debt.
Exactly why do you think these things are so dangerous??
Is it based on personal experience, or just the assumption that since it is a shoddy piece of shit it will also hurt you? Exactly what, for instance, is the angle grinder going to do to you? The wheel will fall apart due to wheel defects, maybe, but what does that have to do with the grinder? If you put a decent wheel on it, it's going to be fine. Maybe the gears with disintegrate, but then you will be even safer since it won't be turning.
have intangible assets such as their 'good name'. Secondly, if they could not pay off a big judgment, the court might order them to be sold at auction to satisfy the debt. >>tool-requires-common-sense way, such as the toys they sell for children
Those brands are owned by HF, and the Chinese (or Indian, or Taiwanese) manufacturer "du jour" sticks that name on the product. If the buyer wanted "Sears" or "Snap-On" stuck on there (and plausibly seemed to own the trademark) they'd do that too. The Japanese used that technique to get into the US market in the early days- putting RCA or whatever on their stuff.
If there was a nasty lawsuit, all the parties would be named, the importer and the retailer (which may or may not be separate legal entities in the case of HF) would definitely be included.
My guess is that they have a hefty product liability insurance policy and you'll be dealing with really sharp insurance company lawyers who can stretch things out for many years if you try to make a claim for whatever stupid thing you did to yourself.
And if there are no assets to sell???? That is the pivotal assumption. The sale of a corporation with no assets cannot begin to pay damages. If the assets (merchandise) are all owned off shore ( in China) and sold on consignment, there is nothing to sell.
NOT saying HF plays this game, but there are many who do, world-wide.
If you ever bought anything from Harbor Freight you would know that the instruction and parts manual that comes with a tool is more like a safety and maintenance manual; there is lots on what to not do and not too much on how to use the tool. If you follow the instructions, you are not likely to get hurt, and if you don't, well you were told, so the liability part is covered. I mean, does a company really have to tell you not to peas in your ears? Wouldn't you know not to leave the key in the drill when you turn it on? Most tool mishaps are due to operator error and carelessness and not faulty tools. Most of the time if the tool is defective, it just doesn't do anything and you cannot blame the manufacture when you get mad and throw it down and it bounces up and sticks in your groin.
BTW, Harbor Freight, at least at my store, will without hassle, replace any tool that you say won't work and if you return it in an original box they don't even ask for a sales receipt.
Maybe parents shouldn't let their kids drive 100 lb go carts, but then they let 5 and 6 year olds drive ATV when it is illegal for children to >
That's near impossible to do with so many things these days. You'd be spending most of your shopping time trying to find a source of what you needed that
*wasn't* made in China.
Speaking of "dangerous tools": Two weeks ago I succumbed to temptation and bought one of those Remington pole saws (a lightweight 10 inch electric chain saw on a telescoping pole.) to help me trim back some of the tree branches which persist in seeking the open spaces over our backyard. (Because every other direction is blocked by more trees, those trees aren't dumb.). I'd been using one of those pull rope loppers, but some of the branches which I wanted to cut were too large for it.
Anyway, the pole saw worked as advertised albeit it's reach wasn't as great as I would have hoped for. But, the clamp which you tighten to lock the telescoping pole sections where you want them is pure s**te for the job it has to do. It's a plastic collet clamping on a shiny fiberglass pole. The collet is closed by a threaded plastic ring with a ribbed outer surface. Looks OK in principle, but it would take King Kong to tighten it enough by hand to keep those pole sections locked in use. And, the (rather crummy) manual which came with the product specifically warns NOT to use tools to tighten the clamp. Even with work gloves on I can't tighten it enough to lock it up.
So, after a few seconds of use, the handle at the bottom of the pole, which contains the saw's trigger switch and it's safety unlock button, twists around relative to the chainsaw bar at the other end of the pole until I'm turning my hand and wrist into a pretzel trying to operate the switch, and by then my grip on that handle is far from stable. Now, I think I'm smart enough to know when to quit when this happens, but it sure seems like an inadequate design to me, and there's something about the warning not to use tools to tighten the clamp that makes me think the manufacturer must know that too.
I Googled around and found that several other people had the exactly the same complaint about this product in their amazon.com product reviews of it.
An email a week ago to the "manufacturer" (DESA) has produced nothing but a question asking me if the collet part was turning relative to the pole it's attached to, and I immediately responded that it wasn't that, but the collet "jaws" themselves which were slipping on the pole they were clamping. Nothing has been heard from them since then.
Before someone suggests I drill a few holes right through both pole sections in several places and stick a bolt through them to fix the pole length where I want it at the time, let me point out that there's a coiled electrical cord running up through the pole, so that approach won't be as easy as it sounds.
I think I'll just return the darned thing to Lowes this weekend. Don Foreman tipped me off about "High Limb Chain Saws" (A few feet of chain saw blade between two ropes that you toss over the limb and "shoe shine" back and forth.) I bought one, and it works great, and reaches a LOT higher that that electric pole saw.
Jeff
-- Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Success is getting what you like; Happiness is liking what you get."
Double insulated tools don't need a third wire, even on 240V. The only possible problem (if it was double insulated) would be if there is a code problem with connecting a 3 pin plug to a 2 wire cord.
True. If the tool was actually double-insulated to meet UL requirements. If it wasn't approved, we don't know. They might have used any number of substandard materials. Or maybe it's fine, just they have not spent the $5K to get the approvals. I've seen both situations.
*Surely* it's not permitted (by UL or CSA) to manufacture approved tools with FAKE 3-wire cords.
I'd look at it and assume the exposed metal bits were supposed to be grounded/earthed, safer than double-insulated in some situations.
Is this a regional in store sale? I have seen many references to the $14.99 angle grinders and out of curiousity I visited our new local Harbor Freight. The least expensive angle grinder was a 4.5 " unit for $39.95. They didn't seem to know anything about $14.95 units. Where do you find them?
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