Customer Service and Product Knowledge

============== A basic and indeed critical problem is that outsourcing an industrial activity such as machining, mining, textiles, shoes, consumer electronics, etc. is almost always a one-way street.

(1) The physical plant/buildings are generally no longer available because of conversion to other uses or demolition. Even when the buildings are still standing but unoccupied, these are generally derelict, in a poor state of repair, and have been stripped of anything of value.

(2) The necessary machines and equipment are no longer available having been scrapped or exported. Indeed, much of the required machinery may no longer be available except as imports at very high prices with long/excessive leadtimes for both the machines and repair parts as domestic manufactures no longer exist.

(3) The local support infrastructure of sub-contractors, machine repair, and suppliers no longer generally exists, and where is does there may be extreme reluctance to again become involved with an operation that can disappear at any time.

(4) Any "good will" the returning operation may have had with the local government and establishment will have been dissipated.

(5) Perhaps the most critical factor is the dissipation of the local trained and educated workforce. An exacerbating factor is the general reluctance of any returning skilled workers to believe anything management says. An even more critical area is the "poisoning of the [workforce] well" in that the new employees entering the workforce talk to their parents, relatives, etc., who will generally discourage any involvement with the returning manufacturing operations based on their personal experience. Indeed, too many of the potential new employees have first hand observation of the repossession/loss of homes and cars from their older relatives who may have been long term skilled employees at the returning operation. One example of this is the shortage of rough necks/floormen in the recent oil/gas mini drilling boom. Older experience oil patch employees have generally refused to return to the drilling industry as they have found other more stable jobs, and the usual source of new recruits, the sons/nephews of existing oil field workers, is very limited as these individuals has seen first hand the treatment of their fathers/uncles. Many community colleges in the oil patch have implemented oil field training programs, but the problem is that most of the instruction must now be in Spanish...

Reply to
F. George McDuffee
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Is the answer a shift to a standard 30 or even 20 hour work week?

The fall in industrial employment even as the inflation adjusted production increases appears to be due to computerization and automation. Computerization leads to reductions white collar and managerial/supervisory employment, while automation/robotics slashes the need for blue color workers.

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While this may be very profitable *IN THE SHORT TERM* for the early adopters, this will have serious consequences in the long term as consumer spending accounts for about 70% of current GDP, and people earning minimum wages, no wages, or drawing unemployment are not a prime marketing demographic.

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Reply to
F. George McDuffee

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Reply to
John R. Carroll

This has come up here before, and I've mentioned that this is exactly what some futurists were predicting back in the '60s and '70.

However, they were banking on the same thing that most economists assume: a rational market. People just don't think in terms of rational economic systems when they make their own individual plans.

The reaction I got, when I brought up this and related ideas from that school of thought, even to a top corporate economist, was that I just didn't "get it," that markets would expand forever, and that people displaced from manufacturing jobs would inevitably find other work that improved the overall GDP even further. This seemed to me at the time to be a kind of intellectual Ponzi scheme. And now we're seeing the result.

I used to harp on the idea, only half-jokingly, that we were making so much stuff that we would eventually reach a natural limit when our houses could no longer hold it all. What I didn't count on was that there was a perfectly rational response to that problem. We just kept building bigger houses...

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Similar to that overall California report I posted above. California is doing roughly the same, or even better, than other large manufacturing states.

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That's a keeper.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

for more on their predictions see

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As almost all economic systems are non/ir rational from time to time for varying lengths of time, it is only common sense to make your plans based on your own best long-term self interest as you perceive it.

As the old [reputable/ethical] stock brokers advised their clients during the booms and bubbles "trees don't grow to the sky."

Also see

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It does indeed appear that production overcapacity is a large part of the problem. For example, the automotive industry can currently produce at 100% utilization between

1_1/2 and two cars that can be sold AT A NORMAL PROFIT. Reduction in capacity by downsizing GM helped, but only a little, and as part of the economic development efforts in several states, additional automobile assembly plants are being constructed adding to the U.S. excess capacity problem. It would therefore seem only rational for Congress to prohibit the use of any federally controlled or guaranteed ED funds to construct any new automobile manufacturing facilities unless existing obsolescent facilities with the same production capacity are also scrapped/liquidated. When pigs fly.
Reply to
F. George McDuffee

Gunner Asch on Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:19:35 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Not likely, but ... how many folks will decide that they have done all they can, but the banks haven't. Or the state? How many people will decide "I'm out of here..." and walk away and let the bank and the state eat it? Not many, I'm sure, but ... "but friends, what if fifty, I say if fifty people a day ... they might think it was a movement."

tschus pyotr

Reply to
pyotr filipivich

And rent storage rooms!

George Carlin needs a place for his Stuff...

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Reply to
CaveLamb

Gunner Asch on Fri, 01 Jul 2011 23:17:49 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Interesting was reading the comments on a post about this. Some of the people were astonished that companies were moving to Arizona, which some of the commentators apparently thought was a bad place to do business. All I can think is what I said of some of the "less than optimal" places I've been "If this is the improved version, can you imagine the dump it used to be?"

Reply to
pyotr filipivich

Yabbut, lots of that money is in big-ticket items, such as Boeings, F-16s, and Obamamobiles. One of those is exported for every 400 million of the chiwanese sub-dollar gadgets we import in its place. (or mebbe 20k of them for every Obamamobile)

Reply to
Larry Jaques

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