Dual Saw -- anyone use one?


Awl --
I haven't, but for the life of me, all I see are *disadvantages* to this
gadget.
The first is, of course, cost.
This thing is triple the cost of a 7 1/4" circ saw, with blades that are 4-6
times the cost of std circ saw blades. Not to mention the lack of
availability.
Next, I can't see that it can do *anything* that a circ saw cannot do. In
fact, a lot less, and with a lot less accuracy.
The only ""advantage" is that the blade is teeny, so you have lower sfpm,
and can get away with cutting rebar, etc -- and I wonder for how long,
before the blade goes kaput.
It has no plate for straight cuts, no mitre, it is basically a 4 1/2"
grinder with a trim saw blade -- $19 from HF.
They never say what the blade size is, but it looks 4.5 - 5".
As always, the infomercial is highly misleading. You cannot do sink-type
cutouts without using a jig saw -- pure geometry of a circular blade.
True, it could reduce kickback, in case of a snag, or cutting unsupported
"in air", but I never had a problem with that either.
That "spark test" with gasoline was fraud.
Another infomercial hustle, afaict.
But if there are different experiences, do tell.
Reply to
Existential Angst
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I had a post about this a few months back in AMC. Its a bust. Maybe Vince(sham-wow, slap chop) can show it off? Got that camera guy?
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Reply to
cncmillgil
We've done the dual saw thread at least twice recently on a.h.r. Check the archives.
Reply to
Smitty Two
cncmillgil wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
"You're gonna love my nuts."
Reply to
Red Green
"Smitty Two" wrote
We've also talked about just about everything else. Let's just disband the newsgroup. And while we're at it, I think the patent office should be closed too. Everything's been invented.
Use your Subject window to see if you want to follow the thread or not. If it says, "Free videos of sex with small farm animals", can you intelligently guess what the thread will be about?
I knewwwwwwwwwwwwwww you could.
Steve ;-)
Reply to
Steve B
What, did a welding spark fly up your ass, Steve? That does it, I'm leaving town for some T & A.
Reply to
Smitty Two
Have two of the Little Giant ladders myself. Plus one of the planks. Best ladders I have EVER owned. Makes all the other ladders out there look like crap. I also know of a lot of fire companies that are getting them because of the build quality.
Reply to
Steve W.
The most important point of the infomercial was missed.. the DualSaw cuts diamond plated aluminum, and almost everyone knows how hard diamond is.
I think they claim 8 years and millions of dollars to develop the DualSaw.. yeah, right.
Reply to
Wild_Bill
I was actually going to mention that as a kind of proof of deceptive intent -- but then RicodJour mighta bunched up his panties so tight, he mighta hurt himself.
And where there is smoke there is fire. Even when everything else seems/sounds above board and kosher, one willful piece of neglect fact-wise usually is just the tip of the conjob iceberg. Like fitness infomercials, where they can't even get the name of the muscle right. Which dudn't really matter, being that they are just one long string of illusion, allusion, and non sequiturs.
The Genesis, I believe: Tony Little changed the shape (heh) of the marketing and advertising world. He sold millions of Ab Isolators, being so pudgy he had to wear a shiny Lycra body suit. That's like... that's like..... that's as absurd as a tobacco company telling you not to smoke.
Hey.... wait a minute.... Big Tobaccer IS telling us not to smoke!!! Holy shit.....
Well, anyway, both prove my point: We live in a BizarroLand of logic, which is heaven come to earth fer yer local marketeer.
Tony Little demonstrated this BizarroLand Logic in what could have been the greatest marketing experiment ever performed -- advertising has never been the same since.
And, if TV were the hypnotist's pendulum, then the Internet is a surgical brain probe -- the situation is orders of magnitude worser now.
Marketeers can not only sell snow to an Eskimo, it won't even be snow! AND, you won't be able to return it. AND, not only will your credit card company not reverse the charges, they may up your interest rate to... oh, 40%, instead of the current 30%, for being 1. a self-professed idiot, and 2. for being a pita to them, on top of it all.
More reasons to love Merka.
Reply to
Existential Angst
DOWNLOAD my self running demo:
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Are you nutz? -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Reply to
Wes
Perhaps you didn't notice that this thing has two blades turning in opposite directions. That's a bigggg difference from an angle grinder, and maybe a big difference in performance too.
It seems to me it would make the kerf bigger but make the cut easier to control.
Reply to
mm
First, how could one miss this? The infomercial bleats about this almost non-stop.
Second, note that unless one is plunge cutting *straight down*, one blade executes a conventional cut, and the other a "climb" cut. This *immediately* (at least in principle) poses a challenge to the anti-kick/grab claim. Also the fact that these two blades are cutting two different swaths of material (albeit directly adjacent) poses a challenge to this claim.
Altho this would have to be tested, I can see a number of situations where this anti-kick claim becomes handicapped -- IF it is significant to begin with -- for example, in thick, tough material, and as per the above. The only thing those spinning blades truly neutralize is angular momentum -- the gyroscope effect.
I'm betting that in a truly objective test, you might find one or two trivial scenarios where this thing might have an advantage -- like mebbe in cutting thin unsupported branches/rod with an unsupported saw. Haven't seen any tree-cutters with this thing on their belt, tho.
I was hoping someone could identify *useful* situations where this thing actually proved worthwhile. And THEN try to justify cost/benefit ratio....
Didja see, btw, how a *chain saw* was in that pile of saws they wanted you to throw away, cuz of the dual saw?? With it's approx. 1" depth cut?? goodgawd....
You noticed the kerf thing! Not a big deal, but basically double kerf is double the heat, effort, blade-dulling -- and material waste. Which is all moot, given how little most people would use this thing. Indeed, one of the considerations in sawing is to use the thinnest blade that will accomplish the task safely,without breakage.
Remember that stunt in the beginning -- the guy cutting himself out of that flimsy diamond-plate box? First, I wonder if that was even 1/8" material.
Second, my $40 7 1/4" circular with its $5 carbide blade proly coulda cut that opening in 1/4 the time, with a much better cut -- iirc, notice they didn't show closeups of the cut? Dudn't matter, cuz they'd be lying anyway. I'll bet a real demo would have that cut look like someone went at it, blind, with a chainsaw -- or an axe.
I made sliding covers for m'truck out of 1/8 diamond plate, but had it sheared. I have some leftover somewhere, and when I find it, I'll set it aside to eventually do a pass with a circular saw. If it cuts aluminum anywhere *near* now my crappy Craftsman 10" RAS cuts 1" alum plate, I'll think I was cutting balsa.
Utter fraud, imo. I don't believe ANY fire dept uses these things -- with a 1" depth of cut??? Gimme an effing break. Uhhhh, hey, this lady is burning up, WHERE'S THE EXTENSION CORD??????
What fire depts DO use are these gonzo gasoline-powered chop/abrasive saws.
Reply to
Existential Angst
I find it most curious that you have such strong opinions on a tool that you have never laid hands on. Your "*immediately* (at least in principal)" translates to "I don't know", as do all of your objections. Amazon and epinions have lots of reviews on the tool - some people like it, some don't. At least they have the good graces to give an opinion after they've used the fookin thing.
If you're taking requests, I'd like to know your detailed opinion - based on your usual surmise and conjecture - about which car I should buy next (I'm in the market). There are so many cars to choose from and, well, your ability to know all about something you've never touched is close to miraculous. I appreciate the help.
Thanks.
R
Reply to
RicodJour
I find it most curious that you have such strong opinions on a tool that you have never laid hands on. Your "*immediately* (at least in principal)" translates to "I don't know", as do all of your objections. Amazon and epinions have lots of reviews on the tool - some people like it, some don't. At least they have the good graces to give an opinion after they've used the fookin thing.
If you're taking requests, I'd like to know your detailed opinion - based on your usual surmise and conjecture - about which car I should buy next (I'm in the market). There are so many cars to choose from and, well, your ability to know all about something you've never touched is close to miraculous. I appreciate the help. ==================================================
Not a problem. To answer your last Q first: Honda Fit. Which is sort of a "hybrid clairvoyance": I actually own one, but I also happen to know it's better than all the other cars I haven't owned.... go figger, eh? Oh, nearly 50 mpg highway. Incredibly roomy, can haul a lot of stuff.
Next, when you grok the difference between a "conventional cut" and a "climb cut", post back -- maybe then we can have an intelligent conversation.
Next, the number of people who loved their Ab Isolators and Gazelles on epinions et al are uncountable. Which is funny, cuz dats like buying a top-rated Perpetual Motion machine, and swearing it lowered your energy bills. And people WILL swear this!! Ergo, tele-evangelism et al.....
Do I really have to buy one of those and test it out?? The US Patent office don't think so.
There is a balance between conjecture and experiment, to be sure. Which is why I *asked* about usage of this bullshit tool, but didn't get much of a response. You DID notice that there were no challenges to my analyses, except for your knee-jerk bleating.
Why were there no fav responses to this tool?
Because rubes buy it, buzz it once or twice, and never use it. Or, rubes buy it for rubes. No offense to rubes, we all get taken. It just that, for some reason, I still get shocked at the diabolically concerted effort that these companies will go through to pick our pockets. Their use of false innuendo and allusion is nothing short of masterful. Peppered with outright lies. Dissecting all of that can be quite illuminating if you allow it, which you won't, apparently.
Also, most of the people on rcm are sophisticated enough to know this tool is bullshit, and ergo haven't bought one. They may not have beat the concept to death they way I have, but it's already well-known that I tend to get my panties bunched up over shit/fraud like this.
If you would like to make this an intelligent conversation, where you or others could learn a priori instead of ad hoc, thus saving themselves $250-300, then challenge each of my assertions, conjectures, observations, to see if they are reasonable, or me just being a.... well, me being a *you*.
Watching and analyzing these near-criminal infomercials is really interesting, even fun. Even the experienced can scratch their heads for a while, trying to nail down the logical flaws. If you noticed, my posts got more critical as time progressed, because the material/concepts had time to gel, and it becomes more apparent how they commit their fraud.
Here's the deal: Is the Dual Saw a "legitimate" saw? Yes. Does it add anything legitimate to the marketplace? No. Put an effing trim saw blade on an angle grinder, and you've got 99% of a dual saw. So how do they get a 1/2 hour infomercial and website out of something that not only contributes nothing, but sells for 6-15 times the price of a "real" tool? (the 20x would be a HF angle grinder/blade)
Buy hyping an inneresting, but ultimately inconsequentially "different" feature -- masterfully.hyping it These people could sell belly lint.
And it seems like you would buy sed belly lint, or demand double blind studies of the efficacy of belly lint. goodgawd... And, if I'm so wrong, why don't you call up dual saw and buy one?
Reply to
Existential Angst
Something you clearly don't, EA. Those terms apply to end mills when using the side of the cutter. Applied to a circular saw blade, they're just meaningless technobabble used to weakly obfuscate your ignorance.
Reply to
Smitty Two
He's just trolling without knowing he's a troll. It happens. His blind spot is in believing that he has information instead of going to look for it. If he'd said that the Dual Saw looks like a piece of crap and asked for input he might have gotten something out of the thread, and I probably would have agreed with him and pointed out the disconcerting number of people who report burning the motor out in short order. Instead he extrapolates to a universal to form his opinion, makes outlandish and erroneous claims, and deftly demonstrates that he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.
There's really nothing new about the technology. I don't recall who said that they didn't see the counter rotating blade technology used in rescue operations, and that if they were, they couldn't be corded, but...
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for the ICE crowd.
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Someone who had seen the Dual Saw infomercial might have recalled that the 'inventor' was a Euro firefighter. The odds of him having seen something similar to the Dual Saw on the job were pretty good, and saying "patented technology" doesn't mean the whole tool is patented. Maybe the guy's contribution was to patent an affordable modification that allowed the expensive tool to be mass-produced for the consumer market.
In any event, the OP didn't bother to look, clearly doesn't understand basic vector physics, and spouts off about something he's never touched. The old saying "throwing the baby out with the bath water" seems to be the OP's standard operating procedure.
R
Reply to
RicodJour
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I'm loving this. You're the guy who said the people on rec.woodworking didn't know how to use a circular saw, and now you're demonstrating that you don't know that routers and mills are the tools that are capable of climb cuts. Running a circular saw backwards is not a climb cut. But keep digging - it's entertaining.
Thanks.
R
Reply to
RicodJour
Uh, I am *not* going to get into this argument, but climb cutting and conventional cutting apply to many types of cutting tools, including saw blades. In fact, in production woodworking, there are ripping saws that operate in the climb mode for the express purpose of avoiding tear-out. They require fancy hold-downs and feed mechanisms for the workpieces, so they don't go flying out of the saw. I've seen them, and I've written about them, and I've had discussions with the blade makers about the differences in the two types of blades.
Reply to
Ed Huntress
This one:
Reply to
mkirsch1
Interesting. I've never heard of such a thing with a saw blade, and DAGS to see if there was such a beast as a circular saw climb cut - the search didn't turn up a single example in the first two pages of results. Can you post a link to a climb cutting machine or something you wrote about it?
In the machines you're talking about, the workpiece/sawblade is moving in the opposite direction to the normal direction of movement. With the Dual Saw type of saws, one of the counter rotating blades is always moving opposite the 'normal' direction of movement - and in fact that that is the primary reason the tool can get away without hold downs and feed mechanisms (equal and opposite canceling and all of that), and the reason that the tool shouldn't grab and kick, it seems to me that the tool isn't climb cutting, so much as just cutting. The adjectives canceled out. So is there really a climb cut in such a tool?
R
Reply to
RicodJour

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