Was recently lurking and reading the newsgroup and found the electrolysis thread of interest. If it works as well as claimed, how dumb would it be to try to de-rust a badly rusted and corroded 1936 P-08 luger? Yes, all the numbers match, and other than corrosion and rust the moving parts move, and has been stripped and oiled.
Would it drop all collector value to have it "dipped" and returned to shootable condition? or should I leave it as-is?
TIA for any advice.
Unless it is a particularly rare variation, it doesn't have much value except as a shooter, because of it's condition. If it is a standard military issue piece (hundreds of thousands of this vintage were made), there is little collector interest unless it is mint with a matching magazine. Since yours is not, anything you do to improve appearance is not going to hurt it and may actually improve the value, assuming it functions properly after you refurbish it. I don't see that you have anything to lose. Go for it.
Randy
There is a segment of the collectible market that likes to have field relics. They must be exactly as found. Worst thing you can do is clean it. A great story about who/what/where/when/why it was lost/found makes it more valuable.
I agree. However be sure its not a rare variation etc before proceeding.
Gunner
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It would need de-oiling first or the electrolytic process won't work on the oily bits. IMHO electrolysis works superbly
Andrew
I'm not an expert, but I recommend NOT using the process on a fire arm for the following reason, hydrogen embrittlement. I had a discussion with a materials expert once who asked me how I removed rust from the tools I collect. And I told him all the tricks, including electrolysis, and he raised the question of hydrogen embrittlement. Hydrogen embrittlement is (was) a problem with plated fasteners. In the process of plating, similar to electrolysis, hydrogen ends up in the metal. In high strength materials this can be a problem. I'm not sure if this applies to the material in your gun, but I recommend not finding out the hard way.
Maybe there are some material experts out here that can explain hydrogen embrittlement better then I can ...
Personally, I find a fine stainless steel wire wire wheel does a great job of cleaning up rusted parts. And case hardened parts like your gun respond very well to wire brushing.
Vince
Randal O'Brian wrote:
Go for it (even on a rare one). I'd rather use electrolysis than the citric acid soak that many conservators use.
It doesn't usually need de-oiling, so long as the electrolyte is sufficently concentrated. A sodium carbonate electrolyte will saponify a fair bit of oil and it just turns into a floating crust of foam.
-- Klein bottle for rent. Apply within.
In general anything you do to a collectible firearm other than the normal cleaning that you have already done will decrease its value. Pragmatist -
"When in the course of human events it becomes neccessary to actually do something, it's a good idea to be elsewhere."
Canning have a note on this, regarding their Klenewell cleaner used for cathodic cleaning on hardened ferrous metals. Their advice is to not leave it immersed for too long (as this is when hydrogen begins to be evolved) and to reverse polarity and give it an hour of anodic time afterwards, to remove the hydrogen.
Word of caution:
My father had a firearm that went to a gunsmith for cleaning and touch up.
The gunsmith disassembled the firearm, and dipped the parts, and when they were done, he started to reassemble it, he found that he was missing a part. He figured that the part, being a little on the small side, might have slipped out of the basket, and since the solution was about spent, decided to wait until the next firearm was dipped, and then when he changed the solution, he would fish the part out of the out of the bottom of the tank.
Well when the parts to the next firearm was pulled out of the tank, the gunsmith found little silvery dots all over the parts, and he knew instantly what had happened to missing piece to my fathers firearm.....
It turns out that during the war, due to the shortage of steel, the manufacture had used aluminum for the part, and when the firearm was dipped, it dissolved into the solution, only to come out of solution onto the parts of the next firearm.
The gunsmith had never heard of aluminum being used with that firearm before.
Greg H.
One reason to use sodium carbonate as an electrolyte, instead of sodium hydroxide (as is sometimes done). If you use cathodic cleaning, and you don't leave parts immersed without the power on, then you won't have this problem.
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