Flare brake lines?

A 3/16" (0.191") brake line on my Honda rusted through from the outside and the dealer wants $1200 to take the front and rear apart
enough to thread a one-piece new one in.
What should I watch for when I splice in a repair section with double-lap flare fittings? Advice on the Net is contradictory and not too helpful.
TIA -JSW
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 12:40:30 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I wouldn't splice into the existing brake line, on the general principle that if it broke once, it'll break again. If you can replace the whole thing in sections, with all new pieces, yourself, without major disassembly, then that's to be contemplated.
brakes = safety item safety item = don't mess around
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outside

HAH! This IS the "net". Do you (necessarily) expect any better advice here than you'd get elsewhere on the net?
(This is not to criticize anyone's advice... only to point out that this is just as unreliable a resource as anything else you might pick up on "the net")
HAH! LLoyd
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:17:01 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

Unless you've been watching the group, and you have a notion of who's full of BS and who isn't. Strangely, must of the folks who answer questions here give pretty good advise, IMHO.
When I ask for advice on the net I generally pay attention to all of it, but only follow the bits that make sense after I think about them a bit.
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:21:16 -0500, Tim Wescott

Here's the best, which I think you posted: Don't screw with brake lines. Do not splice brake lines. Do not jury-rig brake lines.
If you had an accident and they found out you'd done something like that, I doubt if the insurance company would pay.
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wrote:

Is standard hardware made for the purpose considered jury-rigging?
Today I got a quote of $500 to replace both rear lines with copper-nickel which is flexible enough to thread through the tight gaps where the factory lines go. Does anyone have experience with it?
http://www.eastwood.com/blog/eastwood-chatter/tips-tricks-brake-lines/ "Copper brake lines are not advised, but Copper-Nickel hybrid lines are available that won't corrode and will bend easier than mild or stainless steel lines."
-jsw
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:28:56 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

The copper nickel lines are common in europe but almost unheard of here. The copper-nickel alloy used for brake tubing typically contains 10% nickel, with iron and manganese additions of 1.4% and 0.8% respectively. The product conforms to ASTM B466 (American Society for Testing and Materials), which specifies dimensions, tensile strength and yield strength. Formability and internal cleanliness conform to specifications SAE J527, ASTM A254 and SMMT C5B (Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders). Also, the alloy meets the requirements for pressure containment, fabrication and corrosion resistance for ISO 4038 (International Standards Organization) and SAE J1047. I have used the stuff, and it is easier to use tha steel, and is almost totally corrosion resistant and does not work harden and crack like straight copper. Straight copper is not only "not advised" but is specifically prohibited for automotive brake line use - for very good reason.
The stuff isn't cheap, however. I believe one of the most common names is Cunifer. I see Jeggs is carrying the product now at reasonable prices.
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wrote:

A local auto store had it on the rack at $30 for a 25' coil of 3/16". NAPA was nearly twice that.
I ordered this to fit the cramped space up beside the gas tank and hopefully do better than the usual cast yoke and 2-bar clamp flaring tool I've been practicing with. http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Flare-Flaring-Tools-Double-Flare/_/R-SER161A_0006404130
Thanks for the help -jsw
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wrote:

HEARTBREAKING! Dad and I refurbed Mom's 64-1/2 with the 289 and he got $6k for it in 1989, before it was a true classic. He surprised me by handing me ten Benjies, too. "Thanks for the help!" I had done it out of love, but didn't turn down the money. It would have hurt his feelings. ;)

What? You had a mechanical failure and didn't deserve a ticket. I hope they wrote it off after you showed them that the seller had screwed up.
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wrote:

I think minimum cost now is $562 for any moving violation, isn't it? That's what commuter lane tickets cost in the Bay Area now, according to their signs on the freeway.

Egad! I should think a 4-bore would take care of it.

Fun!
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 16:27:41 -0400, Ed Huntress wrote:

Actually, I didn't say "don't screw with it". I said don't splice to a known-bad brake line. If the OP can use approved aftermarket components (i.e., brake lines and blocks from the auto parts store) to do the job, more power to him.
I suppose I might think differently if he does it up out of 64 3" sections of line, with 63 splice blocks -- but replacing one 16' long line with two 8' lines makes perfect sense to me.
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 15:05:22 -0500, Tim Wescott

On Hondas and Toyotas it is not uncommon to see a perfectly solid line rot out under a retaining clip (holds line to body) and the rest of the line is perfect.. In this case, installing a short section can be effective and perfectly acceptable. Just make sure the line IS solid, and make sure you do a good jog ov double flaring the line, and supporting the repaired section when you are done. Generally a good idea to replace the entire run that is clipped to the floor - but you can sometimes avoid having to do the twisties on the firewall and around the rear suspension - or at least the twisties up on the firewall/inner fender behind the engine.
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 17:19:07 -0400, clare wrote:

I suppose that if there's some clearly obvious section that is rotted out for some clearly obvious reason, that would make sense. I'd inspect those remaining bits of line damned carefully, though.
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The lines run from front to rear through a slotted plastic shield under the body. I sprayed LPS-3 into it and the visible sections still have their factory green finish. There's a little corrosion where the retaining clips blocked the spray but the only serious rust is at the rear behind a solid part of the shield.
-jsw
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On Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:41:33 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I guess the key word for me is "workmanlike". A long run that used to be one piece that's had one section cut out and replaced (making it three pieces) is "workmanlike" to me. A long run that used to be one piece with five rusted out spots, that's now in 11 pieces, is not "workmanlike" -- it's "piece of shit" (unless it's a mile long, but there aren't very many mile-long runs of brake tubing in the average car).
In Oregon you do the work and you drive the car, and things only become an issue if your brakes fail and you whomp someone. In states that do inspections you have to please the inspector -- but you probably get to at least partially hide behind him, too, if he approved the work and your brakes fail and you whomp someone.
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NH has salted roads and yearly inspections. When I told the inspecting mechanic that the line had failed he showed me a rack of flared repair sections to fix it, but said do NOT use compression fittings.
I cut out the rust-through and a suspicious spot caused by the adjacent clip and put in a 20" premade section today, with enough of a service loop to cut off and redo the flares if they leak. The spliced line still fits neatly in the clips. I'll be rained/snowed out of working on it this weekend but at least the line is sealed again.
-jsw
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On Fri, 13 Mar 2015 19:28:58 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

Be sure to secure that service loop so vibration doesn't come into play. That gooey cork/tar looking stuff they put around A/C low pressure lines works well. It's sticky and stays put in heat. http://tinyurl.com/nw88re6
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wrote:

The U is only a few inches long and will be restrained at one end where it exits the plastic shield, after I bleed and leak-test the line. On the other side the well-braced parking brake cable is available to support the added mass of the coupler. One of the mechanics I talked to suggested to pad a replaced line with windshield washer hose and tie-wrap it to something nearby if duplicating the factory routing would require too much disassembly of rusted components.
Neither the factory nor the Haynes manual give much advice on replacing brake lines. This may be one of those skills you are expected to learn in person from the shop foreman.
I feel sorry for mechanics who have to learn how to diagnose complex electronics. The initial drop-out rate at the Army electronic repair school was quite high during the Volts - Amps - Ohms - Watts section.
-jsw
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On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 08:45:29 -0400
<snip>

I used some clear hose (happened to have some about the right size) at the clips when I replaced one of the rear lines that runs along the axle. Cut a slit in it to get it over the new line and then positioned the slit to be down or on the bottom. The whole area, whole line actually was liberally coated with wheel bearing grease. I could have slid it over first and left it whole but I figured the slit would let moisture drain out.
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wrote:

Not that it matters at the rear axle, but I try to pre-stock and use plastics known to survive engine compartment temperature like washer and fuel tubing and radiator hose repair tape for DIY patching. I have some tie-wraps, heatshrink, silicone-insulated wire and Anderson connectors in there now to see how they hold up.
(Amazon.com product link shortened) It's very flexible and rated for 200C. It just barely fits into a 30A Anderson pin if I wind solder around the strands first to pull them together.
I just missed capturing 3/14/15 9:26:53 on the clock this morning because I forgot to shut off the flash. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_Day
-jsw
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