Bob Engelhardt fired this volley in
ALL the properties within a 10 mile radius north and east and 28 miles
south and west are on wells. Tens of thousands.
The cited problem is NOT a problem unless you're pumping sand or have been
sold tinfoil tubing in replacement for "pipe".
The company I work for every morning insures a lot of "well people",
as well as a lot of "alternative health practitioners."
They both have about the same level of "real" knowledge, on the
They are all "good people" - the well people drill a lot of good
wells, and the alternative health practitioners - RMTs in particular,
give a lot of people pain relief - but their explanations of how
things work generally have very little scientific basis.
Is it possible to get glass-lined pipe, so the holes won't
appear? I know that there are very short ones for going between a hot
water heater and the lines, to minimize electrolytic damage.
Looks like a clone of the Kill-A-Watt which has been sold for
some time now. I have one, but the maximum current is 15A, and your
pump motor may well draw more than that -- since it has a lot of work to
do to get the water up to usable level.
And -- the KWH readings would be off by a factor of two, as it
is assuming 120 VAC not 240 VAC.
And the manual for mine suggests that there are 240VAC versions
O.K. Here is someone who had them, but is currently out of
This one, however, can handle 240 VAC and current up to 50A.
This is a bit of a kluge, and rather dangerous as it would
interrupt only *one* side of the 240 VAC when unplugged.
However, the second one which I pointed to is still sold, and is
two parts -- one part in the breaker box (where you can clamp it on the
leads for your pump breaker's output only), *and* you can read it from
elsewhere in the house.
It is somewhat more expensive, but I think worth it over time.
I don't have the manual for it, but I suspect that you will want
to do something like reset it once a month after noting that month's
usage and perhaps keep a log of how much, too. Probably not a bad idea
to change the receiver's battery just after noting your reading and
An alternative might be to have a relay sensing the current
drawn by the motor and starting a timer, and if the pump runs more than
a certain pre-set time, to sound an alarm -- or, (with another timer
started when the current drops out) sound an alarm if the pump re-starts
I hope that these will be helpful.
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:mn7cqm$2di
First, the phenonemnon you're referring to almost never happens in a
'mixing' environment. Second, the degree of 'concentration' must be
significant -- not horribly high, but higher than what you'd get from
differences in the stream in a well.
Third... nah... not in a well. You don't see those sorts of things going
on in a water well intended for human consumption.
This case is pure-and-simple mechanical abrasion from particulates. I'll
bet there's a 4' deep 'sand pack' in that lift pipe before it turns on,
which gets veritably BLASTED against the side of the pipe for a second or
two every time the them pump comes on.
The 120 volt one won't work It needs to measure line to neutral - and
the 240 volt pump does not use the neutral. You need a 240 volt
kill-a- watt or clone. They are readilly available in the UK and
Europe where 240 line to line is atandard
O.K. Less than 5 Amps then (except perhaps during starting
But the typical Kill-A-Watt both measures the voltage (across
the neutral-to-hot span) and the current delivered through the hot. The
latter could be with the current fed through a shunt, or the hot wire
threaded through a current transformer. But it *does* have to measure
the current as well as the voltage to calculate the watts load.
Presumably, the power comes from the breaker box in the house,
so a relay could sense the current and turn on a lamp -- or a clock.
And the lamp doesn't have to be a big 100W one, a small LED light could
be sufficient to see. Mount it where you look when sitting down a lot.
Perhaps over a TV if you watch a lot of TV.
Best if you control it with a relay, so it can be in the house
where you can see it frequently -- and perhaps reset it to 00:00 every
The software that comes with the Radio Shack PC-interfaced meter
220-0087 auto-scales the graph of its readings on a computer, so you
can connect it to a clamp-on amp probe or split-core current
on the pump lead and record the pump cycling on and off.
Try it in the store, they don't have the best quality control history.
Did you notice this:
"On the other hand, as corrosion in a well casing may be local to the
usual top of the static head in the well, the repair sleeve approach
may make sense."
That's the outer casing where water meets air, not within the delivery
So why haven't you put a rubber baby buggy bumper around the pipe
there during one of these repair sessions, Dave? This would head off
the repair instead of just letting you know when it wore through. I
have seen bumpers you can install on the flexi poly line so it doesn't
wear through. (Where the hell did I see that?) Googlit.
Wattmeters are great. I have a 3P Kill-a-Watt and check every new toy
I buy with it. It's interesting that all of the 9w LED bulbs are only
taking anywhere from 4.5 to 6w of draw, but they're bloody bright, so
it's a moot point to me.
I'd rather fix the problem NOW than just see it developing sooner.
How about you?
This is an INTERNAL abrasion? OK, forget what I already wrote.
If it's flex, why can't you lift it yourself? Between the drop pipe,
wiring, and safety rope, "it shouldn't be too hard" , especially
with a hole at the bottom, allowing all that water weight to go away.
I'm considering installing a pitless adapter so I can sink the manual
pump into the well casing alongside my submersible drop pipe. I
already have the new lead-free brass foot valve, PVC pump, and PVC
pipes. Water level is 18 or so feet.
Yes, Yes. But the common "crevice corrosion" that effects stainless
stuff below the water line on a boat is something different. It is a
dissolving of the protective coating on the surface of the
I suspect that finding a body of water that varied in concentration of
the same solution within the length of a boat might be difficult.
Certainly the ocean is never still :-)
John B. fired this volley in
Some chemists say that the correct term is not "dihydrogen monoxide", but
for specific reasons, Hydrogen Hydroxide.
H(OH), in sufficient concentration, will also prevent oxygen from being
absorbed by the lungs. Many people have died from H(OH)'s effects on
It's dangerous, damaging stuff! Hundreds of Billions of Dollars worth of
damage to property and infrastructure can be attributed to exposure to
It's even been known to wear holes through iron well pipes.
Why would you not run at least Sch40? The well here also pumps some
micro-sand but has never come close to ever wearing thru a wall and has
only had one (corrosion) pinhole leak in the time since it was drilled
in '64 and that wasn't until mid-80s or so. Typically used here is Sch
80 PVC now with the top joint galvanized for the strength at the upper
At the location you're talking, sounds to me like missing a snubber as
somebody else mentioned and it's more than likely not the water causing
the wear but the flexibility and the pipe is rubbing on the casing when
it starts from the starting torque reaction...
Either way, there certainly ought to be a solution other than monitoring
for leaks and replacing so frequently...
That quite a deep well if I am reading it right. I've running 80' of
schedule 80 PVC with a pump hanging off the bottom. (averages 30'sof head
above the pump) I did have to replace the cheap pump the home owner
installed when they built the house after about 10 years give or take, but
the pipe looked perfect top to bottom. I pulled the pump and replaced it
myself using a couple wood worker clamps and a scissor left to pull it up
20' at a time. It was more tedious than anything. And of course I had to
learn about replacing well pumps and wiring them up so the connections were
Years ago I helped a buddy pull a deep wind mill pump with steel pipe to
replace the leather gasket. We used a lever, some chains to grab the pipe,
and and a couple pieces of steel bar bolted together around the pipe to
secure it between lifts. We unscrewed each section as we got it above the
sleeve. It wasn't hard particularly. Like pulling my pump it was just
tedious manual labor requiring a little muscle.
"Bob La Londe" fired this volley in
I pulled 180' of sch-80 steel with a 5hp submersible on the end of the
string -- myself, alone, without a well rig, much as you did.
I erected a short derrick of wood and used a chain tackle. As you say...
just tedious. It took me several hours, but the only time I broke a
sweat was trying to loosen some of the couplings. (gotta get some longer
pipe wrenches! )
With the same 8-ton chain tackle, I can't imagine it being any harder to
lift a 360' string... just longer.
Even worse is H2S Hydrogen Sulfide.
It is as small as water, can't mechanically filter it.
It can out gas from water and attack the lungs and blood system.
Quick painful death. e.g. poison gas well.
The only filtration method is over silver metal. Or massive
oxygenation. Banks of water towers that spray fine mist.
The Hydrogen is so small it invades iron and steel and plastic
pipe. In Fe materials - rust and exfoliation occurs. Death of
a water system by a thousand cuts. The sulfur ionizes to SO2 rotten egg
gas. It helps rot out copper pipes and by stealing Oxygen
from the water, More hydrogen kills pipes. The free oxygen attacks
the pipe and creates FeO a black powder with a metallic slick on