Some chemists say that the correct term is not "dihydrogen monoxide", but
for specific reasons, Hydrogen Hydroxide.
H(OH), in sufficient concentration, will also prevent oxygen from being
absorbed by the lungs. Many people have died from H(OH)'s effects on
It's dangerous, damaging stuff! Hundreds of Billions of Dollars worth of
damage to property and infrastructure can be attributed to exposure to
It's even been known to wear holes through iron well pipes.
Even worse is H2S Hydrogen Sulfide.
It is as small as water, can't mechanically filter it.
It can out gas from water and attack the lungs and blood system.
Quick painful death. e.g. poison gas well.
The only filtration method is over silver metal. Or massive
oxygenation. Banks of water towers that spray fine mist.
The Hydrogen is so small it invades iron and steel and plastic
pipe. In Fe materials - rust and exfoliation occurs. Death of
a water system by a thousand cuts. The sulfur ionizes to SO2 rotten egg
gas. It helps rot out copper pipes and by stealing Oxygen
from the water, More hydrogen kills pipes. The free oxygen attacks
the pipe and creates FeO a black powder with a metallic slick on
On 7/4/2015 6:56 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Silver is hardly the only way, or even the preferred way to remove it.
Using a silver-bearing filter requires very expensive recycling of the
silver sulfide created, and it's a pain as well as expensive.
H2S can be removed by chlorination (which some folks don't like),
converting the sulfur to insoluble sulfides that CAN be filtered
mechanically. It can also be removed by so-called "manganese green
sand" filters. Or, as you suggested above, by aeration.
That method doesn't USE oxygenation, although that occurs as a byproduct
of the spraying. H2S has a high vapor pressure. Break the water up into
small enough droplets or thin enough sheets, and H2S will gas-off by
itself. Residence time in the tank with the top surface exposed to
circulating air after the first aeration improves the degree of
'desulfurization'. The downside of the method is that it requires two
pumps: One for lift-and-spraying, the other to move water from the
desulfuring tank to the pressure tank.
No "banks of water towers" are required. We have strong "sulfur water"
here. For residential service, a single 500-gallon 'square' (high as
wide) tank (heavily ventilated and screened) with four 'sheeting
nozzles' spraying the fresh well water over the top, and plenty of air
circulation serves fine to remove all of it.
Nope... "rotten egg gas" is H2S. SO2 is "sour" (acid in smell and taste)
If SO2 is released or created, it combines with water to form sulfurOUS
acid, that is pretty corrosive. It's not a natural product of sulfur
water aeration, and seldom is present in well water.
I will agree that 'sulfur water' rots pipes out faster than 'good' water,
but only if it GETS INTO your COPPER or brass pipes. We remove the H2S
before it gets into anything but the iron lift pipe and first pump (iron,
also). HS2 doesn't tend to affect iron much after that very thin 'black
layer' you mention forms.
Mine's only about 17 years old right now...still going strong, though; no
leaks, no corrosion. And when I had the lift pump off for replacement
(due to lightning) about a year ago, NO visible diminishment of the wall
thickness of the pipe.
On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 20:57:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
I'm not sure about treating water but "sour gas", i.e. hydrocarbon gas
containing significant amounts of H2S, is usually treated using amines
in trayed columns which can also remove CO2. The system uses an
amine-water mix as an absorbent.
By the way, H2S in small concentrations smells like rotten eggs, but
in concentrations dangerous to life it deadens the sense of smell so
it effectively has no odor :-)
Small well Lloyd The hydrogen is small and gets into iron standpipes
of the firehouse and valves as well as black iron pipes in homes ....
The black is black oxide. It flakes off, being super fine and makes
the pipe wall thinner.
The volume of an 8" small pipe is larger than your well. I'm talking
about city size wells for filling tall towers.
The volume is much higher than you figure. Our little town doesn't
have the problem, but the main pipes are running 600 PSI in a 16"
pipe. We have new building near our place - across the wire fence..
They drove heavy equipment over a pipe that jammed down into the
main trunk. It was better than a fountain on the 4th.
On 7/4/2015 8:57 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
I don't know what you figure I figure... I didn't argue with hydrogen
embrittlement. At 600psi, all sorts of things happen that don't at lower
What I argued with was someone's (yours?) statement that S02 was the
"rotten egg smell". It's not.
Do I correctly interpret your "whatever" to say that in your opinion SO2
IS the 'rotten eggs smell'. Or is it some other mental shrug you're
If you are maintaing that, I'll give you a simple experiment that will
generate all the SO2 you want, so you can smell it, and see if it reminds
you of rotten eggs.
Just make a pile of about a teaspoonful flowers of sulfur on a fireproof
surface. Heaping it up as high as possible will help.
Gently play a torch flame over the pile. It'll start to look molten in
drops, then turn a reddish color, then brown, the parts will go back to
yellow and catch fire with a faint blue flame. It will flicker and lick,
and you may have to keep the torch at the ready to keep it burning.
The gas coming off that blue fire is sulfur dioxide. Take a SMALL sniff,
and get back with us on your impressions.
This isn't worth the work to prove anything. I know what kills me
on an easy day. And I have talked to large and small developers of
housing and work sites. Posion gas is dangerous and starts out as
rotten eggs and then you loose the smell.
You are not allergic to sulphur like I. I'm sensitive to it.
I'm talking about H2S not So2. And that is the difference.
On 7/10/2015 6:22 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Here is the relevant corrosion mechanism those articles omitted:
"Concentration cell corrosion occurs when two or more areas of a metal
surface are in contact with different concentrations of the same
First, the phenonemnon you're referring to almost never happens in a
'mixing' environment. Second, the degree of 'concentration' must be
significant -- not horribly high, but higher than what you'd get from
differences in the stream in a well.
Third... nah... not in a well. You don't see those sorts of things going
on in a water well intended for human consumption.
This case is pure-and-simple mechanical abrasion from particulates. I'll
bet there's a 4' deep 'sand pack' in that lift pipe before it turns on,
which gets veritably BLASTED against the side of the pipe for a second or
two every time the them pump comes on.
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message
Did you notice this:
"On the other hand, as corrosion in a well casing may be local to the
usual top of the static head in the well, the repair sleeve approach
may make sense."
That's the outer casing where water meets air, not within the delivery
Yes, Yes. But the common "crevice corrosion" that effects stainless
stuff below the water line on a boat is something different. It is a
dissolving of the protective coating on the surface of the
"stainless". See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crevice_corrosion
I suspect that finding a body of water that varied in concentration of
the same solution within the length of a boat might be difficult.
Certainly the ocean is never still :-)
On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 11:10:34 -0700 (PDT), "Dave, I can't do that"
This is an INTERNAL abrasion? OK, forget what I already wrote.
If it's flex, why can't you lift it yourself? Between the drop pipe,
wiring, and safety rope, "it shouldn't be too hard" <g>, especially
with a hole at the bottom, allowing all that water weight to go away.
I'm considering installing a pitless adapter so I can sink the manual
pump into the well casing alongside my submersible drop pipe. I
already have the new lead-free brass foot valve, PVC pump, and PVC
pipes. Water level is 18 or so feet.
Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult,
whereas I am merely in disguise.
Your fancy wattmeter will only read half of what the pump is actually
using. You probably knew that already.
Make sure your fancy wattmeter can stand the current draw -- a normal
outlet is 10 or 15 amps; your pump may need much more.
All you really need is an instrument that'll show accrued time. If you
could get an old mechanical clock that had a "days" dial then you could
use that. Or just an old mechanical clock, if you looked at it often
If you don't like my mechanical clock idea, and if your wattmeter gizmo
can't handle the pump current, wire a socket into one leg of the pump
supply as planned (if you want to be Electrically Correct fuse it for 15
A), plug your gizmo into it, and plug a load, like a 100W light bulb,
into the gizmo. Then your total energy usage will be a measure of time.
It won't be perfect, and you'll need to make sure that your light bulb
isn't burnt out, but you'll get a reading on pump usage.
For that matter, if there's someplace in your house close to the pump
circuit where you're to be found often, just put the light there and keep
an eye on it. Even if the pump house is outside, a 100W light bulb
should be visible most of the time.
On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 9:13:48 AM UTC-7, Tim Wescott wrote:
It's a 240v 1.5hp motor (1134-Watt) and I doubt the meter is directly in series with the load. Might be wrong, have been before. :)
Great idea, thanks, I will see what's at the local junk shops next time in town. Must surely be able to find one of those old flap-clocks.
The pump, supply and connections are 100-feet from the house and not visible and, I would prefer not to be adding 100-Watts extra to the costs.
I am going with the flap-clock, if I can find one. Brilliant thought, thanks again.
O.K. Less than 5 Amps then (except perhaps during starting
But the typical Kill-A-Watt both measures the voltage (across
the neutral-to-hot span) and the current delivered through the hot. The
latter could be with the current fed through a shunt, or the hot wire
threaded through a current transformer. But it *does* have to measure
the current as well as the voltage to calculate the watts load.
Presumably, the power comes from the breaker box in the house,
so a relay could sense the current and turn on a lamp -- or a clock.
And the lamp doesn't have to be a big 100W one, a small LED light could
be sufficient to see. Mount it where you look when sitting down a lot.
Perhaps over a TV if you watch a lot of TV.
Best if you control it with a relay, so it can be in the house
where you can see it frequently -- and perhaps reset it to 00:00 every
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