Electrical - what's wrong with this?

I don't mean technically or Code, but we have a well and we have noway of knowing when there is a pump problem until there is no water. So here's my thinking.
It is pretty common for the water to wear a hole in the lowest pipe about 10" above the pump connection. When the pumps shuts off, this then drains down the water head so the pump needs to run again.
This happens in pump-cycles until the hole is big enough and we run out of water. We are not aware of the increased frequency of the pump running until the pump output matches the hole exhaust capability. :)
So, not only do we have to pay $700 to have the pump lifted and pipe replaced, we will have paid a bunch on wasted power as it can be a few months before the hole is big enough to cause a noticeable issue.
I have one of these and very pleased with it. (Amazon.com product link shortened)35938092&sr=8-2&keywords=power+meter
I am thinking of getting one of these and it's female counterpart. (Amazon.com product link shortened)35938149&sr=8-15&keywords=power+plug
Then wire the plug set into one leg of the pump 240 and Neutral and plug the meter in between. I can check the Cost on the meter regularly and will know if there is trouble brewing.
**Helpful** thoughts?
Dave
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Dave, the first thing (not electrical, sorry) that comes to mind is to deal differently with what must be a LOT of sand in your water!
Just replacing the bottom 10' of the lift pipe with something more abrasion-resistant would seem to be a good thing.
I personally don't have a submersible, anymore. 'Had one at my last house, but now, although our well is 180' deep, the water table is within 10' of the surface, so we use a common above-ground jet pump.
But when I had a submersible, it lasted 23 years in regular residential service (until we move...), along with some irrigation. We had limestone formations, not sand.
I'm sure someone else has had this problem, and the well/pump industry likely has a solution to it. (dunno... something like a 'droppable' HDPE liner, or something, so it can be serviced without pulling the whole pipe string). If the HDPE were the full length of the string, it could probably be replaced by the homeowner at less cost that hiring it out.
Lloyd
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On Fri, 03 Jul 2015 11:04:06 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

D'oh. I was going to mention that, and forgot.
+1. We've replaced our well pump once in our ten years here, and that was due to rank stupidity, involving a severe water leak that went unnoticed and pumped the well dry.
--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
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On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 9:04:09 AM UTC-7, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Thanks Lloyd,
Not sand it is just normal water abrasion. It's why pebbles in streams are round. :)
Well is 430-ft, water level last checked 316-ft. I two well-company people seriously doubt it is sand at the level. I asked and they said, normal wate r erosion. I defer to them and unfortunately no band-aid process available as the pipe is in 21' lengths with couplings joining each length.
Many out here have the problem that's why the well-companies can charge 700 -bucks for three hours work. I am looking into continuous pipe and support cables for the next time that way I can lift it myself. It'll only cost $35 0 to lift it, but I bet they can think of a good reason to charge 700 anywa y. Capitalism and a captive market. :)
Thanks anyway though.
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NOSIR! Pebbles in streams are round because they abrade against other pebbles and sand.
If "normal water erosion" is the culprit, then you either have VERY alkaline or very acid water. My pump, on a plain string of iron pipe, lasted 23 years (and probably more) with no such leaks.
Water, all by itself, ain't very abrasive, Dave. Yeah... it can slowly erode things, but very, very slowly, and certainly not through 3/16" to 1/4" of iron pipe in the time you're quoting.
You have something else going on down there.
Besides... even if 'normal' erosion were the problem, why not seek a solution to the problem, instead of a way to monitor it?
Lloyd
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> fired this volley in

Well... that was presumptuous, because you didn't QUOTE a time! But if it's enough of a problem to monitor, it must occur pretty often.
(sorry for the 'mental leap') L
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On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 11:22:17 AM UTC-7, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

The ONLY solution is to replace the pipe. Which you may not be aware is qui te light wall pipe, more like tubing and also they have PVC pipes as well. Pun intended. As it happens the PVC lasts longer than the gal-steel and I h ad them put PVC as the bottom piece this time.
I think the well people out here know what they are talking about. I am jus t the messenger. If they tell me it is not sand and it is water then for me , it is water. There are thousands of wells out here.
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Whatever... I'm just betting if you did even the most minor bit of "looking around" instead of asking advice on a usenet forum, you'd probably find a ready-made solution to your problem.
But it's your problem. Handle it any way you want.
</suggestion_mode>
Lloyd
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On 7/3/2015 2:53 PM, Dave, I can't do that wrote:

...
Indeed!

There are thousands of wells around here, too, and I have never heard of a pipe being worn through. I've been in my house 42 years and have replaced the well pipe twice, but not because of any holes.
As for the well people, I'd guess that it's what they've always heard and nobody has a better (real) answer.
Bob
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ALL the properties within a 10 mile radius north and east and 28 miles south and west are on wells. Tens of thousands.
The cited problem is NOT a problem unless you're pumping sand or have been sold tinfoil tubing in replacement for "pipe".
Lloyd
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On Fri, 03 Jul 2015 19:27:56 -0400, Bob Engelhardt

The company I work for every morning insures a lot of "well people", as well as a lot of "alternative health practitioners." They both have about the same level of "real" knowledge, on the whole. They are all "good people" - the well people drill a lot of good wells, and the alternative health practitioners - RMTs in particular, give a lot of people pain relief - but their explanations of how things work generally have very little scientific basis.
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On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 11:53:32 -0700 (PDT), "Dave, I can't do that"

It's micro-sand in the water, vs. granular.
--
Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult,
whereas I am merely in disguise.
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On 07/03/2015 1:53 PM, Dave, I can't do that wrote:

...
Why would you not run at least Sch40? The well here also pumps some micro-sand but has never come close to ever wearing thru a wall and has only had one (corrosion) pinhole leak in the time since it was drilled in '64 and that wasn't until mid-80s or so. Typically used here is Sch 80 PVC now with the top joint galvanized for the strength at the upper connection...
At the location you're talking, sounds to me like missing a snubber as somebody else mentioned and it's more than likely not the water causing the wear but the flexibility and the pipe is rubbing on the casing when it starts from the starting torque reaction...
Either way, there certainly ought to be a solution other than monitoring for leaks and replacing so frequently...
--


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On 07/03/2015 1:53 PM, Dave, I can't do that wrote: ...

I wonder if instead they simply say something and if the customer buys it and continues to pony up and simply replace what isn't working well with the same thing it's no skin off their noses...
Have you actually _seen_ and inspected one of these failed sections? I suppose it would be too much to think you'd have one around and could post pic's? Is it _really_ abrasion-thinning from the _INSIDE_ of the pipe or, as I'm guessing outside?
--



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On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 11:10:34 -0700 (PDT), "Dave, I can't do that"

Pebbles in streams are round because they roll around against each other in the running water. Water itself is a lubricant, not an abrasive

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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca fired this volley in

What I said, Clare. But the "Well Guys" (who just MIGHT have a financial interest in the results... nah...) said "No way -- WATER is an abrasive!". So it MUST be true! <G>
L
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message

This claims that water becomes more corrosive where it mixes with oxygen: http://inspectapedia.com/water/Well_Casing_Leaks.php
Differing oxygen levels are said to be the reason why stainless corrodes in some areas under a boat. The concentration gradient creates a weak battery.
-jsw
-jsw
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If his pump is moving air as well as water, there's a LOT more wrong than just water 'abrasion'.
This whole subject is silly (no... STUPID). You solve the problem, not 'monitor the problem.
Our friggin' government is in LOVE with "monitoring the problems", but they FIX nothing. 'Seems like this is a 'government solution'.
duh... L
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On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 18:00:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

Nope. Stainless corrodes because of a lack of oxygen in the water, while the article seemed to say that water near the surface contained more oxygen.
http://www.boatus.com/boattech/articles/marine-corrosion.asp (crevice corrosion) or http://www.passagemaker.com/channels/stainless-steel-and-corrosion/
But as water is made up of oxygen, in part, I suspect that the term should be "free oxygen".
--
cheers,

John B.
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As an ersatz chemist, I'd have to say "dissolved oxygen".
Lloyd
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