engine power unit

I have an 11 hp. water cooled Koehler diesel engine. I'd like to use it to power three different devices: a 3" trash pump, a three phase generator, and
a two stage air compressor. I want to put it all on a pallet and use a forktruck to move it around.
I'm at concept stage. Should I plan on a double pulley and V belt to each unit? This could get <too> expensive but allows running device at different speed from engine. Or, can I just use a roller chain coupling between units - remove double chain to exchange units - I think these only allow about 20 thou misalignment. Anybody done this with success? Or, use a PTO shaft - allows a lot of misalignment. Other suggestions?
"The Kid" will build it for me, mostly. He'll laser cut all sheet metal up to 1/2" thick and do the welding plus get the engine mounted and running. I just got to design and do any lathe or mill work.
Karl
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

How about a line shaft down the center of the trailer with the engine and loads at the corners? They could be on hinged tensioning platforms so you can disconnect the unused ones and hang their belts on hooks, off the rotating shaft. That costs you the shaft, bearings and a pulley, maybe $100, and a rigid frame to support a pillow block at each pulley, but lets each drive be permanent and independent.
I think I would use four-bolt flanged blocks that attach to open- topped U frames so you can lift the shaft out to replace the belts.
http://southernbulk.com/store/images/Hub-City-Dura-Line-Ball-Bearing.jpg
http://www.robotcombat.com/products/images/drivesystems/store_keyed_shafts_lg.jpg
It's easy to mill steps in the key if the shaft and pulley slots are different. After you align the shaft you could attach guide blocks under the end bearings so the shaft just drops into place the next time.
jsw
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Can you make the pump and compresor electrical, and run them off the generator?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:23:24 -0500, Ignoramus28517

Or make the engine drive a hydraulic pump, and put hydraulic motors on each driven device. I suspect that they each want different speeds. It would also give you a "fourth" device, so to speak, that might have some other good applications from time to time.
Brian Lawson, Bothwell, Ontario.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

You must have an exceptionally good source for free hydraulic parts. Have you priced even a short replacement hose?
jsw
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:15:27 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins

I get hoses from Northern and Surplus Center. Very cheap. Typical offerings http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200383952_200383952 http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item7-2248&catname=hydraulic
Same with pumps so long as you can adapt your needs to the best value offered.
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-7796-B&catname=hydraulic
Not that I think that hydraulic is the way to go here.
Wayne
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:15:27 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins

Princess Auto. And lots of stuff is available if you hit the right auction.
How many "hoses" did you figure? I thought just two, and a pair of QuickConnects on each motor.
Brian
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:11:38 -0400, Brian Lawson

I second Brian's savvy answer. eBay, Surplus Center, and Northern Tool have inexpensive bits and lots for that.
www.ebay.com http://www.northerntool.com/ https://www.surpluscenter.com/home.asp
-- The most powerful factors in the world are clear ideas in the minds of energetic men of good will. -- J. Arthur Thomson
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Karl Townsend wrote:

Make everything fit a Cat 1 three point hitch format, i.e. one power pallet with a Cat 1 type output, and all attachments individual to fit Cat 1 hitch, so everything can be interchanged with a tractor if needed. The power unit is basically just an immobile tractor. You can forklift up the power unit with the 3pt attachment on it for easy movement.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I don't want to stifle any creativity here. But, my plan is to treat each of the power consuming units like a mold in a molding press. they will all be mounted to a plate say 18" by 24". The plate drops in a pocket and you impact wench on four bolts. The large plate with the pocket has the engine permanently mounted and is on a small skid. My real quandary at this point is the best way to attach the rotating power. I'm leaning to two of the roller chain couplings and a short shaft between engine and unit.
But, I do know this group can com up with great ideas I hadn't considered.
Karl
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Do all the units need to turn the same direction to operate?
Paul
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

So all the loads turn in the same direction at about the same speed. My lineshaft suggestion allowed either direction and speed changes, with belt or chain drive.
If the plate slides instead of drops into the pocket, Lovejoy couplers should work OK. I think you can align them with plates like lathe faceplates, one on the engine and the other on the loads with adapter bushings. You jack and shim up the loads until the edges align with a small even gap all the way around.
jsw
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I can't have everything on one pallet, it gets too big to haul around easily.
I like lovejoy idea. I didn't know they made them for 10+ horsepower. I'll look.
Karl
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Karl Townsend wrote:

I have a ~50HP, 25KW diesel genset that uses the lovejoy style coupling.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Karl Townsend wrote:

You're reinventing the wheel. Just make the generator, pump, compressor, etc. Cat 1 3 point hitch attachments. Make your power unit with a Cat 1 3 point hitch type output. All the components are readily available and inexpensive, Cat 1 pins, 1-3/8 6 spline shafts, couplings, overrun clutches, etc. You power skid is just fine, but use a standard output method so it is flexible. You power skid can power any Cat 1 3pt implement, and your generator, pump and compressor can readily be powered by any Cat 1 tractor.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

probably a good idea but I can make it smaller and more portable with the mold plate type concept. tractors are the wrong RPM so there's no need to fit a three point.
Karl
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Karl Townsend wrote:

The Cat 1 3pt will add about 18" to the length, pretty negligible. As for the RPM, my Cat 1 tractor (Kubota B7100DT) has 540, 1000 and 1500 RPM PTO speeds.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Karl Townsend wrote:

Could you make use of automotive IRS halfshafts?. IIRC some cars, BMW springs to mind, use a Lobro joint either end fixed with 6 bolts and would provide some plunge and cope with angular mis-alignment no problem, and are constant velocity. Some models, at least older ones have quite short shafts as they have drum handbrakes and the shafts are maybe 14" long IIRC, 300 series?. For quick connection maybe you would have to come up with something .
Last time I saw a roller chain coupling it was on a tractor pull unit in the UK. IIRC one V12 Jag engine in the centre and eight straight 6 Jaguar engines around that, 2 at each corner coupled end to end with a roller chain coupling, impressive but pedestrian compared to a RR Griffon engined tractor unit that ran later.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:41:44 -0500, "Karl Townsend"

I've repaired several multi stage pumps that were coupled to the prime mover using those "chain couplings". The problem is that while they do allow some small misalignment it isn't as much as perhaps it appears to be and any excessive results, in the cases above, to bearing failure. It is also noticeable that they aren't widely used..
My own inclination would be to use Vee belts which, as you said, can allow each item to run at it's optimum speed with the engine at a constant - best horsepower, or best torque, RPM.
Cheers,
John D. Slocomb (jdslocombatgmail)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 29 Jun 2010 10:41:44 -0500, "Karl Townsend"

In that case..Id use belts.
But then..shrug..Im not terribly creative
Gunner
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.