Splines?

Is there a company out there who makes spline adapters that are
weldable? Any other source?
I am trying to get my large hydraulic piston pump hooked up to my 283
Chevy V-8 engine's clutch disc. The pump is male splined, the clutch
is female splined, both have very different diameters. Any suggestions
on how to approach this adaptation? Am I missing anything in how I
plan on marrying these two together? Thanks in advance.
Reply to
trg-s338
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Do you mean very different like just won't fit different, or very different like one is twice as big as the other? If your pump has a shaft that's way bigger it may need more torque than your motor can provide.
If the clutch hole is smaller but not too much smaller could you machine it out? I don't know if laser cutting would be precise enough for splines or if you'd have to broach it. Broaching it would, I assume, be a big PITA.
Reply to
Tim Wescott
You are going to have to frame up a mount of some sort for the hydraulic pump, right?
I would consider looking for examples of the two splines that you need and building a flexible (or not) bolt-up coupler between them. That would allow for the option of replacing the pump with a different one if or when it packs it in.
AFAIK there are various spline standards. The number of splines, whether it is master splined (one spline wider than the others, doubt that in this case) and the diameter are to be quoted when looking through catalogs and the like.
Cheers Trevor Jones
Reply to
Trevor Jones
You don't specify what application this is for, but on ag equipment hydraulic pumps are often mounted to the nose of the crankshaft. I would assume it would be easy to do the same on the rear end. Go spline to roller sprocket on both ends, then marry the sprockets together with duplex roller chain. Look at Surplus Center or a bearing/power transmission parts house for hubs/shafts/sprockets. for a splined hub/shaft that matches both and sprockets maybe around 40 pitch to mate, you will need to weld the sprockets to the hub/shaft. The pump needs to be bolted to a mounting bracket. Need a photo email me--remove the spamless. I did this not too long ago on a NH stacker for a new pump, the old one took a dump/seized and blew out the hubs. A lathe mill makes it a easy deal.
ED
Reply to
ED
Ed I like the double chain idea nver heard that, so I learned something new today, time to pour a drink.
> > >>Is there a company out there who makes spline adapters that are >>weldable? Any other source? >>I am trying to get my large hydraulic piston pump hooked up to my 283 >>Chevy V-8 engine's clutch disc. The pump is male splined, the clutch >>is female splined, both have very different diameters. Any suggestions >>on how to approach this adaptation? Am I missing anything in how I >>plan on marrying these two together? Thanks in advance. > > > > You don't specify what application this is for, but on ag equipment > hydraulic pumps are often mounted to the nose of the crankshaft. I > would assume it would be easy to do the same on the rear end. > Go spline to roller sprocket on both ends, then marry the sprockets > together with duplex roller chain. Look at Surplus Center > or a bearing/power transmission parts house for hubs/shafts/sprockets. > for a splined hub/shaft that matches both and sprockets maybe around > 40 pitch to mate, you will need to weld the sprockets to the > hub/shaft. The pump needs to be bolted to a mounting bracket. > Need a photo email me--remove the spamless. > I did this not too long ago on a NH stacker for a new pump, > the old one took a dump/seized and blew out the hubs. A lathe > mill makes it a easy deal. > > ED > >
Reply to
wayne mak
The application is a homebuilt skid steer, therefore there is flexibilty of design. If I understood you right, the pump and engine shafts would be parallel/side by side linked together with the roller chain. I just thought it would be helpful to have the option of disengaging the engine from the pump instantly via the clutch in an emergency but perhaps it is not standard practice nor is it necessary. How about the thought of a direct link between the crankshaft, either from the flywheel end or the crank snout, and the pump input shaft? A hard link or a flexible link as suggested previously? If a disengaging mechanism is not needed, then a weldable spline adapter to a plate bolted onto the flywheel would be feasible? I do have a small vertical mill and lathe. I want the simplest most direct coupling in keeping with the KISS principle if that is possible. Some pictures as you suggest would be great! Thanks.
Reply to
trg-s338
No I think he is indicating the shafts are inline. The sprockets are essentially butted together and a double row chain is wrapped fully around them to couple them. It provides more drive torque capability that a "regular" chain drive of equivalent size since it's full 360 degree coverage, while still allowing easy disassembly and compensation for a small amount of misalignment.
See "Roller Chain Couplings"
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*LTIP
Hydraulic relief valves provide your first stage of "emergency" protection, the engine kill switch provides the second.
Note that all the bigger machines use "closed center" hydraulic systems with variable displacement pumps and/or hydrostatic drive pumps so they don't have the heating issues you have with in an open center system where you constantly pump hydraulic fluid.
You need a coupling that allows for some misalignment as you're unlikely to get prefect alignment in a home built setup.
Look at the roller chain couplings on the MSC site, if you have a store like Tractor Supply Co. in your area they should have much of what you need in the store to look at.
Pete C.
Reply to
Pete C.
Oh, for that application a clutch wouldn't be necessiary, the swash plate is what controls the pump/machine. A flange bolted direct to the flywheel with a drive shaft to the pump is one way to set things up. Thats how JD lawn tractors are configued.
The linkage I previously wrote about is for adding a hydraulic system to a conventional drive system, Perhaps you could look over a Bobcat or somesuch to see how they work. For shop built machinery old combines are a great source of parts, lots are hydrostat. Strip one down to the running gear and go from there. Get one with a nice 6cyl diesel and a hydrostat trans..... Move over monster garage. Worn older machines without a lot of capacity sell for cheap at auction...A friend of mine made a heavy duty sprayer out of an old combine 100 ft booms ect all hydro , looks like a bug but it's actually slick.
ED
Reply to
ED
You may find what you need here...
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BSF is another possible source. They make complete adapters including a custom housing and coupling if you specify the pump and engine, but I think they'll supply just the coupling...
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Ned Simmons
Reply to
Ned Simmons
Assuming he has a hydrostatic pump.
A home built unit really need a flexible coupling of some sort since precision alignment is unlikely.
Hydrostat is certainly the preferred way to do it. Right now we don't know what type of pump he has. He may even have a type of pump that requires a low pressure charge pump and if he doesn't have that he could toast the pump in seconds. He really needs to provide more detail.
Pete C.
Reply to
Pete C.
Sorry for the lack of information. All I know about this pump is that it is an axial piston pump with some electronic controlled solenoid piggybacked onto it. I am still gathering the precise detail about this pump. There is a Sauer Sundstand nameplate on it that also says "Electrical Displacement Control MCV104A7940." There is a small gear pump attached to its tail with two hoses connected to it from the control valve. That's all the data I have thus far. It will be spun by my Chevy V-8 motor.
Reply to
trg-s338
Indeed broaching would be a massive undertaking for me. I am looking for a fairly simple solution. I have a small vertical mill and lathe but no spline cutter tool. Wish I had a Shaper.
Reply to
trg-s338
It is now crystal clear to me. That roller chain coupling is an attractive idea, now it only I can find it splined already. Thanks for the link!
Reply to
trg-s338
I am certain to find these links highly useful in my construction. Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!
Reply to
trg-s338
I have seen a web page describing using a lathe as a rotary shaper -- you make a tool that cuts on the end, then plunge it into the piece that you're cutting using the main feed, while controlling the depth with the cross feed.
It was being used to shape a round section of a crankcase with very low precision requirements; I don't know if you could ever make it good enough to shape splines.
Reply to
Tim Wescott
Just how big of a skid steer are you going to make with a 283 engine? Must be about the size of a D4 crawler.
What little bit of the smaller equipment that I have seen used a pump with 3 circuits built in to one pump.
Reply to
Richard W.
Rule #1 for usenet engineering--assume nothing.
A u joint would be enough
A homebuilt skid steer project would be out of my league--I have enough problems keeping the hydraulics operating on the equipment in the yard, like the leaking mcv valve on the IHC utility tractor--hopefully o rings will work. I can't seem to touch a hydraulic leak/breakdown for less than 5 bills....
Reply to
ED
There is a very good chance that that pump requires the low pressure charge pump I mentioned. You need to get most info on the pump before you try to run it or you could destroy it. I have a big old Deere 500C backhoe that has an 8 piston radial variable displacement main pump and it relies on a smaller low pressure charge pump located in the transmission to supply it's intake hydraulic fluid.
Another thing to keep in mind is you'll probably get better performance with something other than a direct drive since most hydraulic pumps are expecting to be on diesel engines that max out at 1,800 RPM and the pump will likely max at a similar RPM. Put a suitable manual gearbox after your engine and clutch and you'll not only have an easier time coupling to the pump, you gain gear reduction to let the engine operate in it's power band without overspeeding the pump.
Pete C.
Reply to
Pete C.
That was my point. Sounds like he has a big variable displacement main pump for an excavator or similar. Good since it allows for a closed center hydraulic system, but he will have to fudge the wheel drive controls.
Even the chain coupler should provide enough flex. I don't think a typical home built unit will have precise enough mounting for a rigid drive, but within a degree or two should be possible.
Hydraulics get expensive fast. I did a fair amount of rebuilding on my Deere 500C and outside of the hydraulic lines everything else is big bucks. The main pump is like $1,700 alone.
Pete C.
Reply to
Pete C.
I've got the pump, two White Hydraulics roller stator motors, skid steer tires and wheels, all the 3 inch double action cylinders I need for the loader and backhoe arm, the steel frame partially welded together. All that's missing is the directional valve bank, the hydraulic system circuit and hook-up.
Reply to
trg-s338

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