File coarseness

Hi there I use files quite a bit in my shop. I grab one & feel it's coarseness w/ my thumb & look @ it's shape to decide whether to use it or another. I've never known what I was actually using. I've decided to buy a few USA made different lengths & cuts all @ once. After looking @ some catalogs, I've come up against the same question I've been wondering about for years: How do I find out what the coarseness of 1 length file of a given cut is compared to a different length of a different cut. For example: Is a 6=94 bastard courser than a 14=94 2nd cut? Or, is a 14=94 smooth cut smoother that a 6=94 2nd cut? If so how can I find out what it is & by how much. I've read Machinery's 28th pages 962 through 965. Nothing. Nothing that gives me definitive quantitative answer. I've Googled, I've looked in Wikipedia. The only thing I found is a photo of 3 files that says something to the effect of =93a bastard has ~ 25 teeth /in; 2nd cut has ~35th /in; & a smooth cut has ~ 60th/ in=94. (These # aren't accurate, I'm not looking @ the site, they are from memory, but in the ball park)

Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No?

Thanks for any info, JD

Reply to
jay
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"jay" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@u25g2000pra.googlegroups.com...

Hi there I use files quite a bit in my shop. I grab one & feel it's coarseness w/ my thumb & look @ it's shape to decide whether to use it or another. I've never known what I was actually using. I've decided to buy a few USA made different lengths & cuts all @ once. After looking @ some catalogs, I've come up against the same question I've been wondering about for years: How do I find out what the coarseness of 1 length file of a given cut is compared to a different length of a different cut. For example: Is a 6? bastard courser than a 14? 2nd cut? Or, is a 14? smooth cut smoother that a 6? 2nd cut? If so how can I find out what it is & by how much. I've read Machinery's 28th pages 962 through 965. Nothing. Nothing that gives me definitive quantitative answer. I've Googled, I've looked in Wikipedia. The only thing I found is a photo of 3 files that says something to the effect of ?a bastard has ~ 25 teeth /in; 2nd cut has ~35th /in; & a smooth cut has ~ 60th/ in?. (These # aren't accurate, I'm not looking @ the site, they are from memory, but in the ball park)

Also I don't remember having ever used a file that the handle would stay on. I probably have but just don't remember it. The files I buy will probably not have handles. Who makes an after market handle that stays on. Maybe I should buy the cheapest wooden ones & epoxy them in place. I assume that would work. No?

Thanks for any info, JD

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Do you chalk your files?

Reply to
Tom Gardner

I use golf balls for file handles. Just drill a hole that the small end of the tang will fit into. They stay in place.

I would recommend getting a type A aluminum file if you do much with aluminum. They remove aluminum quickly but leave a pretty smooth surface.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Dan

Type A file. I do file some aluminum. That's a good idea. Golf balls. Hmm. Do U use more than 1 ball if the tang is long enough? Thanks, JD

Reply to
jay

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Dan

The idea of using golf balls came from someone here in RCM. I just use one ball. I have a bunch of big files, but don't think any of them has a tang long enough for more than one golf ball.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

You'll find different manufacturers have their own ideas as to what constitutes a "smooth" cut file, for example. And needle files used to have numbers corresponding to how fine the cut was, no corresponding between makers. Same cut in the same manufacturer's line should be the same TPI no matter what size or pattern the file is. Somewhere I've got a really old shop manual naming the cuts available back then with TPI ranges and photos of the various patterns. You'd be lucky today to find a 10th of the different ones thay had back then.

Re: file handles: Best I've found has been one sort that has two ridged jaws like a brace chuck. Opens up in a taper, you turn a knurled disk on the end and it draws the jaws back inside. Doesn't lose its grip, either. Ace has had them, ditto True Value. You can make your own with a little work, wood is easy to free-turn on a lathe, then use copper plumbing pipe for ferrules. Have several of that sort, too, they don't come off. You're supposed to PUSH with the things, not beat the work on the head or drag the file with as much down pressure backwards as what you do forwards.

Stan

Reply to
stans4

I think you'll find Stan's assessment tooth patterns to be true. The only time I've seen really coarse quality-made files in recent years, was at flea markets/garage sales where some old stuff was dragged out of an attic or other dry storage area.. where those great old files had been sitting for a few decades or more.

For just about any files, aside from tiny/fine jewelers' files, one should be able to produce 3-4 surface finishes.. each with different metal removal rates. Files can be pushed straight, allowed to drift/arc right or left while cutting, or be drawn/pulled while held perpendicular to the direction of travel while cutting.

Being a southpaw, files work differently than when being held right-handed. Some of my most frequently used files for deburring are ones I made by snapping the bare handle end off.. then attaching a handle suitable for pulling, to the tip end. These are very fast at taking off edges and corners when pulled. Narrow three-sided ones are very handy for small parts that are easily held in one hand, and the deburring file in the other. Being southpaw, it's always felt natural to use a file on a lathe workpiece.. something that would feel sorta weird if I held the handle right-handed.

Then there are rasp/file combination tools that have very prickly teeth raised up out of the metal, and these are really fast on aluminum, soft metals and synthetic materials. There is a commonly available double-ended combination rasp/file tool that I intentionally broke in half, then attached with epoxy putty to longer pieces of aluminum bar stock to form a handled tool that cuts on the pull stroke. With the prickly rasp teeth, it's a great tool to prep a repair spot in fiberglas. The raised teeth really rip into the resin and glass substrate, without raising a cloud of nasty dust such as a grinder or sander would cause.

It seems that soapstone is a reasonable compound to put on files to keep the teeth from clogging. I've used it for quite a while, and haven't found any disadvantages to chalk. Chalk will always be absorbing moisture, but I dunno if absorption is an issue with soapstone.

Reply to
Wild_Bill

The idea of using golf balls came from someone here in RCM. I just use one ball. I have a bunch of big files, but don't think any of them has a tang long enough for more than one golf ball.

Dan

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And a FAR better use for golf balls than what I usuallydo to them!

Reply to
Buerste

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Cheers! Rich

Reply to
Rich Grise

I've used some file handles which "screw onto" the tang. The hole in them looks sort of like the inside of a wirenut, but the wire looks like it's triangular in cross section so it presents somewhat sharp threads which dig into the tang.

Jeff

Reply to
jeff_wisnia

We don't want to know what you do with them, you prevert! ;-)

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

So, do you want to smell my balls?

Reply to
Libtardopia Lost

U mean beat the work on the head, like one would beat little kids on the head :-? Thanks for all the good advice. I don't have much of a problem reducing pressure on the back stroke of a file, but where I really fall down is w/ a hack saw. I really don't like hack sawing much. I go too fast, work up a sweat, & don't relieve enough pressure. @ least I don't like to hack saw any steel > ~ 1/4=94. Softer or smaller I don't mind so much. Thanks again, JD

Reply to
jay

No, and I wish you would bathe. People can smell you for miles. :(

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

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=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Dan

Prevert? Me? I was just expanding on Stans idea.

Reply to
jay

Um, you missed the smiley?

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Odnd5Q3OM4hk7RnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com...

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=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Dan

Only if your balls have been washed in the ball washer near the tee off area or whatever it's called, JD

Reply to
jay

Soapstone does sound like a good idea. I don't know how much free soapstone I have left from before I retired, quite a bit. If I hadn't thrown away most of it as it accumulated over the years, I'd have many Lbs. left. Thanks, again, JD

Reply to
jay

Rt. handed sounds downright dangerous, especially w/ long sleeves. Something I did a lot when younger, but almost never do now. Wearing Tee shirts these days. Odd when I think of it. Being somewhat ambidextrous,I probably filled left handed on a lathe. I hacksaw left handed when I get tired Rt. Handed. JD

Reply to
jay

I use golf balls for file handles. Just drill a hole that the small end of the tang will fit into. They stay in place.

Dan

Just watch out for the liquid filled center ones! phil

Reply to
Phil Kangas

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