How do you adjust the cutter bit on Aloris Tool Holders

Steve,

The most common setup is to simply put the tool tip on center, and if any top rakes are desired the tool topside of the toolbit is ground to suit.

As to the brazed toolbits, they are just put ========

( BEGIN SELF LESS SALES PLUG )

We had made up quite a few of the BXA 2 style holders in our shop during slow times to sell on ebay and I got maybe 30 or so left.....I just mainly got tired of all the hassle of dealing with the paperwork and emails ect. involved with the ebay sales.......

Very nice tools and CNC machined on critical areas with light surface grind elsewhere for appearance.......4130 American steel....The finish is hot oil and they are NOT hardened.....

I think she has em listed for 22 bucks each plus shipping......

We have sold close to a hundred of em over the last couple years and so far not had a single complaint....

I know at least a couple folks on this board have purchased from us and likely there are others as well-- Im not gonna get into name dropping.......let em step up to the plate if they like and give a frank assessment of the quality on their own accord if they feel so inclined......

Anyways......

If anyone is interested drop me an email if you want more info....

Oh, and heres a hotlink to a ( admittedly not so great ) photo :

Note:

These are the only style we have--but anyone familiar with using the system knows the straight holder is the one it seems you always wish you had more of

The tool holder has a sort of setscrew stop that gives nearly micrometer accuracy in setting the height of the tool above the bed.

The angle of the tool is adjusted by loosening the hold down bolt and turning by hand.

They are independently adjustable.

Typically the cutting edge is set as nearly on center as you can. The best way to do this is to face off a piece of stock - when the tip of the tool does not leave a tit on the end of the stock (too low) then it's right.

Jim

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Look closely at a picture. On top of a toolholder is a vertical threaded rod. On that rod is a flat round knurled nut held in place with a jam nut. The toolholder is positioned vertically by the position of the nut.

In practice, if the tool is a mite too low, the main clamping arm is loosened, and the nut screwed down just a skoach, then the main clamping arm is tightened again. Once this is set, it stays set. You can take the toolholder off, set it on the bench, come back next week and put it back on, and it's right at the height you left it.

Grant

Steve wrote:

If you are facing to the center of a part and you don't want a protuberance then set the cutting edge exactly on center by adjusting the knurled height nut while the wedge is unlocked. If you are not facing to the center then remember- turn below - bore above. The center line that is. By about 10 thousandths. This will ensure the cutter always has ample clearance and cuts instead of rubs. I use a depth part of a dial caliper to measure this setting off the end face of a known diameter. One word of advice- don't buy the cheap Chinese holders like Phase One brand. They are absolute crap. Invest in a real Aloris brand and you will not regret it.

Tomcas sez:

"One word of advice- don't buy the cheap Chinese holders like Phase One brand. They are absolute crap. Invest in a real Aloris brand and you will not regret it."

Hhmmmnnn, I wonder about that there "Phase One brand". Does that mean that Phase Two brand is twice as crappy?

Bob Sw>

Only 30 left? Instead of a testimonial, maybe I can get you to send me a couple more? I'll email addy if you don't still have it.

michael

inclined......

Thanks, Michael.

I will have her ship em out, she probly has the address on file.

You've already covered the hows of setting center height quite well, so I've just snipped that part.

[ ... ]

Hmm ... I've got a mix of Phase-II and genuine Aloris tool holders of various styles. You can get more esoteric styles in the Aloris brand, but for the styles which are in both brands, the Phase-II work well with one caveat. As soon as you get them, pull the setscrews which come with the holders and replace them with good USA made setscrews of the same size. (IIRC, it is 8mm or perhaps 10mm for the BXA size). The reason for doing this is that the metallurgy of the screws is probably the worst part (at least of the Phase-II ones which I have), and you *really* don't want to have the socket split out while it is clamped onto a tool (and no part of the setscrew is above the toolholder block, so you are left with drilling it out. :-) Since a box of 100 of the proper size screws is cheap enough from MSC or one of the other major vendors, it is cheap insurance.

Also -- I would suggest purchasing a good T-handle Allen key of the right size for the setscrews so you can put some serious muscle when you're setting a tool in the holder.

Now -- there are lower-budget versions than the Phase-II, and these are sometimes sold as Phase-II (at least based on the advertising), so this may be what you encountered.

Enjoy, DoN.

You're talking about the side-to-side angle. I think that he was talking about the *top-rake* angle, which with a lantern-style toolpost is adjustable as he described. And the height and top-rake interact on the lantern style toolpost -- usually adjusted for a semi-reasonable compromise by adjusting the stick-out.

Normally, I set the toolpost up to present the tool shanks at a right (side-to-side) angle to the workpiece, and the other set of dovetails is then at the right angle for facing or boring instead of turning.

With insert tooling, the rake angle is part of the machining of the pocket for the insert (or perhaps, as in the threading inserts, controlled by a solid carbide anvil which mounts between the insert and the tool shank.

With HSS -- if you want a rake, you grind it in the tool while shaping the rest of it.

In either case, with a quick-change toolpost, the bottom of the tool shank is parallel to the bed and (hopefully) the floor.

Not the rake angle, but the side-to-side angle certainly is.

Indeed so -- and this part of your question has been covered in greater detail by other responders.

Enjoy, DoN.

I wanted to add that over the years Ive found quality of heat treating to vary widely on import items...

Sometimes I think they heat em a few at a time and throw them in a bucket of cold oil....... in the morning......then as the day progresses they might heat a bunch more till they glow a little then throw em in the bucket of (now hotter) oil.......

I dunno, import tee nuts, screws washers and such never seem to quite be what I would expect and are often hardened up the point of extreme brittleness--

Im kinda curious if anyone has ever had any import aloris style tooling ( or any other tooling for that matter ) crack and break on them due to this ???

I'll second that motion! Btw, for a Phase-II BXA, the set screw size is M10-1.5 x 20mm.

It's not just the metallurgy of the screws, but the way they are manufactured. High-quality fasteners are forged (and have rolled threads); the hex socket is formed during the forging process and is very strong and made to close dimensional tolerances. On the other hand, the socket in cheap socket head set screws are made by broaching a hole (a hex shaped anvil is pressed into a round hole, cutting out the hex corners and forcing the displaced metal into the bottom of the socket). This leaves a weak, poorly-formed, and often sloppy socket. That is why they strip-out so easily.

I agree with Don regarding the quality of genuine Phase-II tool holders. They are certainly good enough for a home/small shop. But be sure to get the wedge style (not the plunger style). There was a thread in this newsgroup recently about the differences; do a Google groups search. Btw, Enco has the Phase-II tool holder sets on sale all the time (and they are currently offering free shipping).

Oops, I meant Phase 2. I chalk it up to old age or the subconscious attempt to erase all memory of that brand. Seriously, the difference in quality is like night and day. Take for instance the combo tool that hold triangular inserts on each end. When it is used on one side of the block if faces and when it is installed on the other side of the block it turns. Unfortunately, the heights of the insert pockets are different on the Phase 2 you have to re-adjust the tool height (or shim) each time you change from facing to turning. The Aloris is dead nuts. The insert clamps on the Phase 2 are cheaply constructed. The Aloris has insert clamps that are fully adjustable and include integral brazed carbide chip breakers. Normally I could understand where a cheaper quality brand would have it's niche market but in this case the price differential is relatively low while the quality difference is extremely high. Just my opinion.

Ah, of course.

This explains my missing the point. I grind my HSS tools such that there is side rake, but never any back rake, which is what the tilt of a toolholder (in the rocker of a lantern toolpost) creates.

I much prefer that the side cutting edge of the tool, when mounted in an aloris tool holder, be horizontal, as nearly as possible.

Jim

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Jim sez: " I much prefer that the side cutting edge of the tool, when mounted in an aloris tool holder, be horizontal, as nearly as possible."

Be careful not to confuse rake with relief.

Bob Swinney

Geeze, I wonder where that leaves me, I'm still using those old Phase III (.) I IV I V IX brand tool holders!

Jim (no wonder the romans declined)

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Indeed. I like to form turning tools from HSS blanks using three grinds only:

First grind forms front relief and front cutting angle, and is done on the front of the blank.

The second grind is done on the side of the tool, and forms only side relief. This grind has its axis exactly parallel to the tool blank's axis, and is done so that the edge of the grind exactly intersects the side corner of the tool blank, as nearly as possible.

Stopping at this point turns the tool into a brass-turning tool: No side rake at all, it has a flat top, formed by the factory top surface.

But for turning steel, there's a third grind: the one that forms the side rake. That grind is likewise done parallel to the tool's long axis, and likewise is done so that it terminates at the very corner of the factory square shape. (once again, this edge is the corner between the top surface, and the left surface of the tool, for a tool that cuts towards the headstock)

If this grind is done with back angle, then the cutting tool has both side, and back rake as well. Many folks feel that back rake is essential to good cutting, I've never found that to be true.

The advantage to grinding lathe tools this way is easy to understand - the cross section of the cutting tool does not vary as one moves back from the working edge. The tool can be sharpened by simply doing a new front grind, and the geometry and more importantly, the *height* of the cutting edge is nearly unchanged. [1]

Honestly this is not as good as using insert cutting tools, but for the home shop type, it's nice to be able to do a quick touchup on the tool in the middle of the project, and have the height and geometery stay almost exactly the same.

Jim

[1] getting the formed cutting edge to be exactly coincident with the factory corner of the tool requires two things: a grinding wheel that is dressed quite flat, and a steady hand to sneak up on the corner.

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I find the Phase XXII/VII stuff fractionally better.

Ned

I don't know anything about "Phase One" brand, but I do know about Phase II brand quickchange toolposts. They're fine. One machine I own had an Aloris toolpost when I bought it, the other two have Phase II toolposts. The holders are interchangeable, and I can't find any operational differences between them. But there certainly is a *price* difference, with the Aloris stuff selling for about 6 times as much as the Phase II.

Gary