How much extra HP from burning nitro?

So I was wondering, from a post here about a bone stock engine running nitro methane instead of gasoline, how much extra horsepower could a
stock engine produce just by changing fuels from gas to nitro? I'm thinking that the engine won't run very well. Now, I'm sure that if the compression was changed, and the carb re-jetted, and the cam changed, things might work better. But if all you do is change fuels I think there won't be much of an increase. This is of course in response to gunner's assertion that he was clocked going 264 mph on a bone stock Ninja motorcycle burning nitro methane fuel. I don't think the motorcycle could develop enough power to push itself and someone sitting on it to over 200 mph no matter what kind of fuel it was burning. ERic
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:52:10 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

At the time Gunner initially made this (absurd) claim, an all-out lakes-modified Ninja did 231 at Bonneville. That was considered to be the world record for Ninjas, although it wasn't a class record. Some other make was slightly faster.
The 1000 cc Honda that topped 270 was claimed to have 400 hp. That doesn't sound unreasonable: the engine was built by Honda specifically for this attempt. That must be very recent, because Gunner held the world record for sit-on motorcycles until very recently. <g!>
That is, if Gunner had actually gone 264 when he said he did, that would have been a world record at the time. The record for "sit-on" motorcycles was broken by Al Lamb in 2012. It was 265 mph, and the bike was another Honda.
As for running a stock engine with nitromethane; only if you want to turn your engine into shrapnel. It is very weird stuff, behaving differently with different percentage combinations of gasoline or methanol. You may get lucky with small amounts, or, if the gasoline sucks up the oxygen in the mix, you may blow your muffler into the next county when the resulting hydrogen explodes in your exhaust pipe. If you use much, you will blow up any of several parts of your engine. It's strictly for people who know what they're doing. It also costs too much to be practical. And if your engine is newer than, say, 1980, forget it unless you're an electronics expert, too.
If you want a chemical jolt for more horsepower, go for nitrous oxide ("the bottle"). You'll find kits for it all over the Web. We used to have an expert on it here (Bottle Bob) but I think he left.
With nitrous, your engine may actually hold together long enough for you to get home. <g>
--
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Ed Huntress wrote:

An added bonus is that if you get a misfire it's gonna explode on the next cycle ... I read up a bit once on nitro burning drag cars , them motors are running very close to hydraulic lock . It was also interesting to discover just how few times the motor actually turns over in a quarter mile . At <for example> 10k RPM's , on a trip down the track that lasts say 5 seconds that's only like a bit over 800 revolutions - and many of those care do it in way less that 5 seconds .
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Right. The stoichiometric ratio for pure nitro requires one heck of a lot of nitro. But even mixed with gasoline, the products of a misfire are themselves explosive, and your engine can grenade in a spectacular way.
Which makes you wonder about Gunner sitting on a nitro-fueled bomb, just one misfire away from suffering high-speed castration...
I think the nitro story is a new addition to his account of the event, BTW. <g>
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Ed Huntress wrote:

Heh , I was following a friend on a little motorcycle ride . His was a stroked 92 ci Harley Shovelhead . As he attacked a sweeping uphill turn at a "high rate of speed" I heard a loud BANG and saw him and the bike basically disappear in a cloud of smoke . After attempting roadside repairs we discovered that the rear cylinder had cracked most of the way around at the base flange . It <probably> wouldn't have castrated him as there was a frame top tube between him and the jug , but it sure would have been exciting if it had broken all the way . Pretty good chance the flying bits would have done at least some minor maiming of his lower extremities ...
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You have to remember those "top fuel" cars are virtually all supercharged - and they do pump enough fuel into them to fill the combustion chamber up to90+% in volume. - with 60 PSI (over 4 atmospheres) of boost - SO - 4X as much air as a NA engine running at 100% VE, and 2.3 times as much power per unit of fuel = at leat 12 times as much power as a non modified engine. Then add additional compression to the "mix". They burn about 75 gallons per minite. They use 85% Nitro - the rest is alcohol - generally Methanol.
If a top fuel engine puts out 7500 HP, it is producing 8400 HP - the other 900HP drives the supercharger!!!!
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Yup , that was also in the info I read . The supercharger takes more horsepower than 3 average cars produce .
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:26:19 -0500, Ed Huntress

In the early 80s I found a radio control airplane store that sold nitromethane for the engines in these model planes. It came in quart bottles at different concentrations. So I used to buy the stuff and run it in lawnmower engines. I would mill the heads until they would just clear the valves to increase the compression some too. I was amazed at how much better the lawnmowers would cut tall, thick grass. Engine life was poor though. I never did try to run straight nitro. It smelled good too. Eric
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:02:10 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Jeez, Eric, that's the only nitro-fueled lawnmower I've ever heard of. Did you have to run behind it to keep up?
Regarding the model planes, yes, and I had to soup glow plug fuel with an extra 10% nitro to start my model OS Wankel. That would mean about 20% nitro in total.
But a lawnmower? Jeez. Yeah, I'll *bet* engine life was poor. <g>
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 17:06:56 -0500, Ed Huntress

My older brother thought it was funny too. He would tell me if he saw a lawnmower dumped on the side of the road. I'd get it and see if it was worth fixing. Usually they were. Just needed points or something simple. Then I'd have another mower to modify for the tall weeds. No bogging them mowers down. Eric
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:25:09 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:

Well, I'm with you on that. Until I bought my current Honda from my neighbor, when he moved away, I never spent more than $10 for a lawn mower, at yard sales. Points, plug, maybe a condenser, fresh oil, sharpen the blade...another five to ten years of mowing happiness.
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:31:18 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer

Yeah, standard old blue-can Cox was 10% nitro. It probably still is. Cheaper stuff has 5% or less.
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:03:29 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer

Oh, yeah, I have great memories of flying models, too. We flew control-line combat in our neighborhood. I must have build a dozen planes, because we kept crashing them.

I had a six-footer from Edmund Scientific. Was that it? Glue sticks were easier. <g>

They always burn sooner or later. My dad set *his* dad's field on fire with one when he was 10 years old. In those days, they put a crossed pair of fine wires across the bottom, wrapped a piece of rag around the intersection, soaked it in kerosene and lit it. Then they ran when it caught fire.
Those things have been around for a very long time. My dad was 10 in 1925.
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Pretty sure the printed version still is available, even...
http://www.scientificsonline.com/catalogsearch/result/?q lloon
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On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:27:41 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"

Jeez, all those toys....
No hot-air tissue balloons like the ones they used to sell, though. And the prices are pretty steep.
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Ed Huntress wrote:

When I was a teen I made 'em out of those plastic bags the dry cleaners send your suits home in ... but I always had a problem with getting enough heat . I was using candles , and that just wasn't enough .
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HAHAHA !!!
WE filled them with hydrogen, THEN attached the candles....letting them to drift at various locations over Puget Sound...
Oftentimes, numerous UFO sightings were reported on the nightly news...
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Start with a hair dryer or heat gun, until the bag is inflated. Then apply your flame.
That's how I did it.
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Sterno worked well enough.
As did the filling of the bag with the gas emitted from Draino and Water with a bit of aluminum foil in the bottle. A fuze for a counter weight always made a fun addition and far safer than a heat supply of Sterno.
Gunner
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On 2/26/2013 9:57 PM, Snag wrote:

I wouldn't know, of course, but I understand the key is using birthday candles. 12 of them. Hold the bottom of the bag open with crossed drinking straws (you will need to jam one straw into another to make them long enough), and carefully drip some wax onto the straws as candle mounts. No one would want to try this, say, on a beach at night with an offshore breeze, because a puff of breeze will fold over the top of the bag and it will catch fire, plunging into the sea and endangering the turtles. There is also the danger that the Asbury Park Press will report that the UFO "glowed red and hummed".
Kevin Gallimore
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