So I was wondering, from a post here about a bone stock engine running
nitro methane instead of gasoline, how much extra horsepower could a
stock engine produce just by changing fuels from gas to nitro? I'm
thinking that the engine won't run very well. Now, I'm sure that if
the compression was changed, and the carb re-jetted, and the cam
changed, things might work better. But if all you do is change fuels I
think there won't be much of an increase. This is of course in
response to gunner's assertion that he was clocked going 264 mph on a
bone stock Ninja motorcycle burning nitro methane fuel. I don't think
the motorcycle could develop enough power to push itself and someone
sitting on it to over 200 mph no matter what kind of fuel it was
burning.
ERic
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:52:10 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:
At the time Gunner initially made this (absurd) claim, an all-out
lakes-modified Ninja did 231 at Bonneville. That was considered to be
the world record for Ninjas, although it wasn't a class record. Some
other make was slightly faster.
The 1000 cc Honda that topped 270 was claimed to have 400 hp. That
doesn't sound unreasonable: the engine was built by Honda specifically
for this attempt. That must be very recent, because Gunner held the
world record for sit-on motorcycles until very recently. <g!>
That is, if Gunner had actually gone 264 when he said he did, that
would have been a world record at the time. The record for "sit-on"
motorcycles was broken by Al Lamb in 2012. It was 265 mph, and the
bike was another Honda.
As for running a stock engine with nitromethane; only if you want to
turn your engine into shrapnel. It is very weird stuff, behaving
differently with different percentage combinations of gasoline or
methanol. You may get lucky with small amounts, or, if the gasoline
sucks up the oxygen in the mix, you may blow your muffler into the
next county when the resulting hydrogen explodes in your exhaust pipe.
If you use much, you will blow up any of several parts of your engine.
It's strictly for people who know what they're doing. It also costs
too much to be practical. And if your engine is newer than, say, 1980,
forget it unless you're an electronics expert, too.
If you want a chemical jolt for more horsepower, go for nitrous oxide
("the bottle"). You'll find kits for it all over the Web. We used to
have an expert on it here (Bottle Bob) but I think he left.
With nitrous, your engine may actually hold together long enough for
you to get home. <g>
An added bonus is that if you get a misfire it's gonna explode on the next
cycle ... I read up a bit once on nitro burning drag cars , them motors are
running very close to hydraulic lock . It was also interesting to discover
just how few times the motor actually turns over in a quarter mile . At <for
example> 10k RPM's , on a trip down the track that lasts say 5 seconds
that's only like a bit over 800 revolutions - and many of those care do it
in way less that 5 seconds .
Right. The stoichiometric ratio for pure nitro requires one heck of a
lot of nitro. But even mixed with gasoline, the products of a misfire
are themselves explosive, and your engine can grenade in a spectacular
way.
Which makes you wonder about Gunner sitting on a nitro-fueled bomb,
just one misfire away from suffering high-speed castration...
I think the nitro story is a new addition to his account of the event,
BTW. <g>
Heh , I was following a friend on a little motorcycle ride . His was a
stroked 92 ci Harley Shovelhead . As he attacked a sweeping uphill turn at a
"high rate of speed" I heard a loud BANG and saw him and the bike basically
disappear in a cloud of smoke . After attempting roadside repairs we
discovered that the rear cylinder had cracked most of the way around at the
base flange . It <probably> wouldn't have castrated him as there was a frame
top tube between him and the jug , but it sure would have been exciting if
it had broken all the way . Pretty good chance the flying bits would have
done at least some minor maiming of his lower extremities ...
You have to remember those "top fuel" cars are virtually all
supercharged - and they do pump enough fuel into them to fill the
combustion chamber up to90+% in volume. - with 60 PSI (over 4
atmospheres) of boost - SO - 4X as much air as a NA engine running at
100% VE, and 2.3 times as much power per unit of fuel = at leat 12
times as much power as a non modified engine. Then add additional
compression to the "mix". They burn about 75 gallons per minite. They
use 85% Nitro - the rest is alcohol - generally Methanol.
If a top fuel engine puts out 7500 HP, it is producing 8400 HP - the
other 900HP drives the supercharger!!!!
In the early 80s I found a radio control airplane store that sold
nitromethane for the engines in these model planes. It came in quart
bottles at different concentrations. So I used to buy the stuff and
run it in lawnmower engines. I would mill the heads until they would
just clear the valves to increase the compression some too. I was
amazed at how much better the lawnmowers would cut tall, thick grass.
Engine life was poor though. I never did try to run straight nitro. It
smelled good too.
Eric
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:02:10 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:
Jeez, Eric, that's the only nitro-fueled lawnmower I've ever heard of.
Did you have to run behind it to keep up?
Regarding the model planes, yes, and I had to soup glow plug fuel with
an extra 10% nitro to start my model OS Wankel. That would mean about
20% nitro in total.
But a lawnmower? Jeez. Yeah, I'll *bet* engine life was poor. <g>
My older brother thought it was funny too. He would tell me if he saw
a lawnmower dumped on the side of the road. I'd get it and see if it
was worth fixing. Usually they were. Just needed points or something
simple. Then I'd have another mower to modify for the tall weeds. No
bogging them mowers down.
Eric
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 14:25:09 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@whidbey.com wrote:
Well, I'm with you on that. Until I bought my current Honda from my
neighbor, when he moved away, I never spent more than $10 for a lawn
mower, at yard sales. Points, plug, maybe a condenser, fresh oil,
sharpen the blade...another five to ten years of mowing happiness.
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:03:29 -0800 (PST), jon_banquer
Oh, yeah, I have great memories of flying models, too. We flew
control-line combat in our neighborhood. I must have build a dozen
planes, because we kept crashing them.
I had a six-footer from Edmund Scientific. Was that it? Glue sticks
were easier. <g>
They always burn sooner or later. My dad set *his* dad's field on fire
with one when he was 10 years old. In those days, they put a crossed
pair of fine wires across the bottom, wrapped a piece of rag around
the intersection, soaked it in kerosene and lit it. Then they ran when
it caught fire.
Those things have been around for a very long time. My dad was 10 in
1925.
When I was a teen I made 'em out of those plastic bags the dry cleaners
send your suits home in ... but I always had a problem with getting enough
heat . I was using candles , and that just wasn't enough .
HAHAHA !!!
WE filled them with hydrogen, THEN attached the candles....letting them to
drift at various locations over Puget Sound...
Oftentimes, numerous UFO sightings were reported on the nightly news...
Sterno worked well enough.
As did the filling of the bag with the gas emitted from Draino and
Water with a bit of aluminum foil in the bottle. A fuze for a counter
weight always made a fun addition and far safer than a heat supply of
Sterno.
Gunner
I wouldn't know, of course, but I understand the key is using birthday
candles. 12 of them. Hold the bottom of the bag open with crossed
drinking straws (you will need to jam one straw into another to make
them long enough), and carefully drip some wax onto the straws as candle
mounts. No one would want to try this, say, on a beach at night with an
offshore breeze, because a puff of breeze will fold over the top of the
bag and it will catch fire, plunging into the sea and endangering the
turtles. There is also the danger that the Asbury Park Press will report
that the UFO "glowed red and hummed".
Kevin Gallimore
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