How much extra HP from burning nitro?

I wouldn't attribute to intelligence what can be explained by personality traits.

Reply to
Ed Huntress
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Ah, so he's smart, but he only ACTS stupid... in virtually every last thing he does. All the easier for such a smart guy to recognize that situation in all the others he calls mentally unbalanced etc.

What's your theory to explain why so many people of above average intelligence can't figure out how to solve their own problems?

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

"Above average" may be a tough one, but when you get to the extremes, it appears to be some combination of focus upon things and ideas that aren't in the here-and-now, and a simple lack of caring about things that are mundane. If you're a philosophical type, I'd say that they dismiss and devalue "mundane reason" (the philosophical concept).

During the '60s and '70s I lived in Princeton, NJ, among many people who had known Einstein. The stories about his detachment from the here-and-now were legion. I've sure you've heard some of them. The overall impression I got from it is that there were things he cared about, and things that were, to him, just time-wasting distractions. In that category was much of what the rest of us care about. d8-)

Maybe a little bit of that is present with garden-variety people who just have high IQs.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Einsteins superior intelligence was beyond dispute, and he used it to fantastic effect. Gunner's superior intelligence is very much in dispute as there's virtually zero evidence that it exists. You say you've glimpsed some reasoning ability, but all I've ever seen in the exchanges between you (granted, I could never read but a fraction of them) is your logic countered mostly by his dodging and weaving, willful ignorance, and faking knowledge and or experience. Perhaps his supposed intelligence is analogous to someone owning a Ferrari and using it as a flowerpot. You say he still has a Ferrari, and I say that as long as it's full of manure then it's merely a flowerpot.

Semantics aside, I say his lying is proof that he DOES wish he could accomplish things and be better off. And my theory about that matches the details I previously posted about the pseudologue subset of pathological liars. Therefore my question remains: if he possesses above average intelligence, then why wouldn't he use it to get what he wants?

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

Well, you say "superior." There are quite a few people on the RCM NG who have well-above-average intelligence. There are a lot of volk here who have a great deal of curiosity and a fascination with challenging physical and mechanical things. Many of them display high intelligence.

What's curious about it, to me, is that many (not all) have limited or narrow educational backgrounds and apply radically different levels of logic and understanding to subjects they know well, versus those they don't. A lot of them are mostly self-taught and they display a common characteristic of the autodidact: pockets of intense and deep knowledge, spanned by large gaps of near-vacuum. One reason I find it interesting is that we see what happens to high intelligence when it isn't broadly cultivated. Those gaps are filled with the wildest speculations, logic run amok, and conspiracy theories to explain the gaps they never filled. We also see an especially strong tendency to seek only news and knowledge that supports their "visceral ideology," as one conservative writer called it.

Anyway, AFAIC, the whole thing reinforces my belief that there is little connection between intelligence and "mundane reason." I'm not surprised anymore to see intelligent people who are socially dysfunctional, superstitious, or otherwise self-defeating. We have a few of them here.

FWIW.

Personality, not intelligence, IMO.

Again, my experience is that there is little connection between the two.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

I was pushed very unwillingly into theatre, but once there I noticed that it was largely a study of how intelligent people try, and often fail, to cope with the illogical world. Perhaps that reflects the authors' own struggles. Their blogs can be fascinating confessions to their sympathetic fans, and often reveal the large attitudinal differences between left-leaning Hollywood and right-leaning country music and sci-fi writers.

Chuck Lorre, the first Jewish Pope?

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Reply to
Jim Wilkins

We leftwingers here?

The methodology of the left has always been:

  1. Lie
  2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
  3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
  4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
  5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
  6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner

Hmm. So you're referring to playwrites? I don't think I've ever known one.

Regarding those attitudinal differences, there have been one or two studies recently that suggest it runs deeper than attitude. They're finding links to actual brain functions.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

That does not describe Gunner. He consistently displays low intelligence.

A dull person can nonetheless accumulate deep knowledge. Look to some building tradesmen for an example. He can have a lifetime's experience at doing the same things over and over, and be genuinely knowledgeable about his trade, yet helpless to reason out technical changes if it requires basic math. And from that can come a massive and self defeating resistance to the change.

I'd have to read an example of the display of the supposed high intelligence. If you mean for example, Gunner jumping from the subject of guns to a cull, I say there wasn't any above average intelligence to begin with, merely a devotion to the subject, and endless hours to learn because he's unemployed and unmotivated to succeed, therefore allowing crazy hours of unproductive google time.

Didn't you say that one of the ways you judged Gunner to be intelligent was occasional bursts of reasoning ability? Exactly what are you using to estimate the level of intelligence if not the display of reasoning ability?

If he were more intelligent he could put up much better arguments. He's still lose his debates because his personality drives him to choose the wrong side of the facts. But at least his arguments could rise to O'Reilley's level. Yes I know he frequently parrots O'Reilley's positions, but Gunner is an expert at bungling the execution.

Would it be fair to call it irrelevant intelligence then?

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

I don't want to go over that point by point, but I recognize evidence of thinking in one's writing, sometimes drawing upon subtle points that show insight as well as logic, and I base my conclusions on that. It probably comes from a lifetime of writing as a profession.

FWIW, I've guessed people's IQ from time to time and I generally come within five or eght points. Maybe some people can come closer. Only one person I know has ever gotten mine right. Apparently I'm confusing to some.

Also FWIW, I don't put much stock in the words used in heated arguments. Keeping cool when anger rises is a learned skill as much as evidence of native intelligence -- maybe more.

So, I don't think we can disentangle the issue any further. It's interesting, but there is no clear conclusion here.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Of course it does. Leftwingers have been proven to be mentally damaged.

The methodology of the left has always been:

  1. Lie
  2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
  3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
  4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
  5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
  6. Then everyone must conform to the lie
Reply to
Gunner

So much so that some live in Jersey and claim that they are Republicans.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

IQ tests are not that precise that one can get a number which is it. If you gave the same IQ test to a person spaced over time so that they do not remember the answers, you might be able to come up with a standard deviation of the test scores and have some idea of how precise an IQ score really is. At least how precise that test measured it. And if you repeated that with a lot of different IQ tests , you might be able to come up with a way to rate IQ tests as to how accurate they are. Some tests are probably better at measuring slight differences at various levels of IQ. I know some tests are no good it measuring high IQ's as the highest score on the test I gave to some employees was about 150. But it was a pretty good test for IQ's between 110 and 140. Don't know about lower scores as the employees I was giving the test to were all electronic techs , and I don't think there were any scores below about 120.

My guess is that the standard deviation for one persons IQ score would be about 3 or 4.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

Well, see, you just have natural talent. I had to learn it from decades of dogged work. d8-)

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Ah yes, the subtlety of copying and pasting horseshit he read on a nutjob website, and then making asinine arguments to defend it.

Yes there is. The claim is that Gunner has more intelligence than it appears because: 1. He says so. 2. You say so. But the evidence that he has less than average intelligence is overwhelming. I don't deny that there COULD be something more than it appears, but I have yet to see any evidence for it.

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

That seems logical, and we have a perfect test case at hand. Gunner was recently faced with two examples of his lying, both well proven by his quotations demonstrating that he pulls different numbers out of his ass. He had plenty of time to formulate his responses. In both cases, his quick thinking allowed him to ... pretend he hadn't been caught. In a third case, faced with overwhelming evidence against his lie, his quick thinking allowed him to... repeat the lie. If we're measuring IQ by reason or by quick thinking, then he surely demonstrated below average intelligence.

How many complex or abstract ideas did you see in Gunner's responses that I mentioned above? Can you or anyone quote examples of him EVER demonstrating the ability "to hold many complex or abstract ideas in one's mind at the same time?"

Reply to
whoyakidding's ghost

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