How to choose a machine oil for the lathe headstock?

On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 11:58:41 -0400, the infamous "Ed Huntress" scrawled the following:

That sounds like good advice.

Hondas are well made, fer sher.

-- After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music. -- Aldous Huxley

What? Don't they teach the ASTM D 130 in high schools any more?

There is a lot of info to summarize and comment on. I shall do so later.

No, *you* can get Vactra...:-)

Not trying to slam anyone, but Pennzoil cost me a wet clutch in my 1976 Honda 550-4 years ago. I've been really cautious ever since, always getting oil spec'd for 4-cycle motorcycles and wet clutches. Live and learn...

Where I was born they still burn tribologists at the stake I think...

Chinese machine manuals are based on feng shui and i-ching.

Lot of the time it is half the battle to find what is the reliable source of information on a subject.

Oh, yeah. That was a very big issue when I was writing for metalworking magazines, because you really need experts to get your facts straight...or someone will write a letter to the editor and let you know that the one you quoted, wasn't.

-- Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote: [...]

Not just metalworking magazines :-)

I am more impressed by an article where the author uses cogent arguments supported by literature even if I do not know his/her name than by an author of renown who simply states his opinion.

Then there are the experts who are widely admired for their publications or presentations at symposia but you happen to know how they actually work...

Aaargh! You nearly got me ranting!

This is one of the many 9x20 flavors offered. Similar to HF-44996, Grizzly G4000... See:

The belt drive is flimsy too. It uses a special, hard to find 5mm belt. Part number either 5M710 or 5M730. Plan on having to fool around and align the motor, belt and driven pulley upon assembly and clean-up. Otherwise you will be replacing said belt all too soon.

There are many, many web pages discussing its strengths, shortcomings and modifications. For the cost they are okay machines after fixing the shortcomings.

Michael Koblic wrote: [...]

The other belt is a synchronous type

Gates offers a direct replacement for it (that was the only replacement belt that matched numbering I could find). Other people have had trouble finding belts too. There was a fellow selling them for an okay price via ebay. See:

I still haven't used this lathe, bought it brand new from HF over 2 years ago. Still need to finish cleaning the paint off the lead screw, de-burr the threads/slot area on the lead screw, figure out why the cross-slide has a rough spot on every turn, suspect some of the oil ports are plugged up and probably several other things I can't remember right now...

Sorry about that earlier link snafu, this one should be right for the HF 9x20 lathe:

If you want a good running machine out of the box keep looking ;-)

Review of the 9x20 groups reveals that almost *to a man* they had to make a new compound mount which, apparently, in its original state is floppy and useless.

Another frequent beef with this machine. Many recipes for cure - none very simple.

Vendor. But...see comments re-reliability.

I did. It probably is. They are prepared to send out parts I am told.

Believe or not, this is one of the better manuals. But I agree. Verification is the word. [...]

In the context of the conversation I doubt it - I was making like I wanted to buy one right there.

From what I have read you are in a good company for that and many other reasons.

I suspect this is rapidly becoming a non-event.

Interestingly those who bought the little 7x8 Craftex from the same source seem to like it. Presumably made in a different Chinese factory.

No big deal. they are all the same, after all, except the Jet 920W which is supposed to be better but also costs twice as much.

I suspect that is the correct course of action.

So -- my impression (having never actually seen the machine) seems to have been fairly accurate.

If you *ever* expect to need to turn left-hand threads, you will be in bad shape with this machine.

O.K.

That could help -- depending on how long they will keep it up.

It is not that bad a manual -- better than a lot that I have seen, but I doubt whether it accurately describes the current machines on their sales floor. The machines change with the winds, and they may be holding onto the manual to try to impress everyone.

O.K.

I think that you are making a good choice.

That might be interesting to look at -- to see what features it has and what it is missing.

Good Luck, DoN.

These machines are pretty common though and you already know about its weak points. I'm sure the other new lathes with a similar price have their weak points too. There is always some value in "knowing thy enemy".

It really depends on just how much you want to put into it, or if you just want to start using it. Even if you find a used one you won't know if it was gone through first or not. When I was researching the 9x20's one guy replaced that little belt 2-3 times before he noticed how badly skewed the tensioner/motor alignment was. He just un-crated it and put it to use. On mine I could tell at first glance that there was some work to be done fixing the belt area before I would ever power it up.

The main parts in mine all appear to be intact/serviceable, nothing seems to be missing. That is all I looked for and would have taken it back for. The warranty in my mind is nothing but a joke for people that don't know anything about mechanical stuff. Anyone worth their salt would never ship a new machine put together like these are. I would be embarrassed to do so and sign my name to it. But, that is the way of retail/manufacturing today. No pride in anything and most people can't tell the difference...

That is certainly a valid point of view. There are some other aspects to it:

Here is another one:

I had a look through the big houses and unless you want a 13" + you are pretty much out of luck. Interestingly, though, there appears a resurgence of Southbend and if one is to believe their web page, a 7x15 and a 9x22 are in the offing:

This grows old. I went through that dance with my mini-mill (and in many ways am still dancing) and even the Taig is not a finished product which needs some pimping if you want to use it with any frequency.

Having to turn a compound clamp straight off is rather off-putting.

I think one may be a bit harsh on our Chinese brethren: Do not forget where they are coming from historywise. Remember the back-yard steel furnaces of the Great Leap Forward? The current state of their technology may be simply reflected in their exports. They will use the stuff themselves without batting an eyelid 'cos they do not know any better. The Japanese went through it. The Taiwanese, the Koreans. None of their stuff is cheap anymore.

There is a price to be paid for, well, low price.

Well ... my only experience on this was an example of the "$200.00 H/V bandsaw" which I got from MSC. While I needed to do a little work to get the tension adjust to slide far enough, everything else was much better than reports which I have read of other versions of the same machine which I read at the time. One important example is the mounts for the blade guides. Mine has the ball bearing assemblies screwed to a heavy duty forged block, so it does not shift over time. I have seen other examples from other vendors in which the mounts for the guide bearings were bent steel which would shift over time as chips passed between the blade and the rollers.

Granted -- the MSC version was up at the $200.00 mark while the others were falling to about $160.00, but I feel that I got the better deal.

Enjoy, DoN.

I have too heard that the Grizzly versions are a bit more "polished". If I could look one over right now as they would ship I could give you an answer. I know where the HF machine needs extra work.

HF had/has a 9x20 on display. It looks like #@$%^. The one I got was still in the wooden shipping crate. They used a forklift to set it into the back of my truck. There are minor differences between mine and the display unit.

I went with this lathe because I could pick it up locally and it was a decent bang-for-the-buck. It was on sale, I had a 20% off coupon, total came to $630 with tax. I also considered Taig, but by the time you add up everything, like what comes with the 9x20, you had more than a 9x20, smaller machine and they don't do threads. Similar with the 7x12 units. Once you see one in person, they really aren't very big lathes.

There was some stuff coming from Europe that looked interesting. Problem is finding someone selling it for an okay price. If I planned on using said machine to make money I would seriously look for them. Making money for oneself is just too damn complicated here in the USA. Your tax man, accountant, insurance agent, lawyer... are the ones making the money...

The ones I was thinking of were similar in size to a 9x20, maybe a little bigger (shrug).

Well, I was well aware of what I was most likely in for. I could finish up, get it running in less than a day if I wanted. But I've gotten lazy and there is nothing pressing that I really need it for. I chose to burn my time elsewhere right now, but someday I'll get the urge again or really, really need it for something. Kinda nice knowing I have it, only wanted one for ~30 years :) Would like to have a bigger one, but this will do for now.

I think they do/make exactly what is contracted. No more than they absolutely have to. Isn't that they way it goes today? The young people we had at work most all came in 5 minutes after starting time and left 5 minutes (or more) before quitting time, every day. If you didn't keep poking them in the butt they would just sit and collect dust or play with their Gameboy. Usually called in sick at least once a week too. They just plain didn't "get it".

Right now I think you need to buy something that should do the job for you, not too expensive though. This will get your feet wet and you will begin to see where improvements can be made and what features, refinements you wish you had. In other words, "you don't know what you don't know" yet.

I will be in the unique position to do just that comparison: I am off to Vancouver and will be visiting Busy Bee. If the time permits I shall hop actross the border to Bellingham and visit Grizzly there.

Could not put it better myself.

Quite true. Fortunately...most..not all..but most modern lathes have the low gear driven, with a tossup between gear or belt driven for the medium speed, with High typically being direct drive.

This holds fairly true for most lathes 30 yrs or newer, import or domestic.

Gunner

"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement, reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"

Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno