They designed and make what you are looking for. Brett's father, Jack, is probably dead by now but Brett will know who I am and help you out. You could do worse. IIRC, the company is Artisan Mold. Hell, given conditions, they might not be in business today.
The original company, and where I worked while getting an engineering degree at that University of Michigan, was Acumen Corporation.
Your decision. My mistake is worth considering but my opinion isn't really worth a thing.
I guess my thoughts can be boiled down to good luck, God bless, and be patient.
"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal, kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do." -- Terry Pratchett
You're very right. The idea is to make the upper die hit the lower interference, and actually stop (instead of flexing). It's important to do preliminary tryout at low tonnage...
I've seen presses where the bushings on the ram have been extended up (at least 2x the rod diameter, perhaps 4x) in order to reduce the rotation. It would be a major gamble to not give the ram the support it requires.
On the other hand, in the types of dies I want to build, the maximum side to side deviation would be no more than one material thickness over the the length of the die - that is, at maximum tonnage. Spotting is *never* performed at high tonnage levels until the die is close to being fully spotted (gives *very* false readings anyway). Obviously, the toolmaker's good judgement would be important.
There is also a very real possibility of monitoring the out-of-square condition of the ram using perhaps simple micro-switches in order to prevent severe damage.
For sure. In the type of work I want to do, there will be reasonably well distributed loads. It's more that the balance won't be perfect.
Well, the truth is that having a press which is incapable of maintaining parallelism is a great way to never obtain a repeatable part, and I very much appreciate the importance of this.
It looks like the presses Ned was referring to are made for very balanced loading. Although it brings up the question, how off-center do the real press manufacturers allow? On the new 2000T M=FCller- Weingarten at my old place, we had issues when the out-of-square parameters were set too tight. The press kept tripping out halfway through the working stroke - so they adjusted the alarm parameters....
I'm glad it was helpful. I was quoted about US $9700 for the MA30 press w/ram, about $12,000 for the MAG30, not including the actuator. I'm sure Danly or another die set builder could do it for considerably less.
The Tox actuator I spec'd is another $6000. It's perfect for the app I'm working on; fast advance at low pressure, short working stroke, fast return.
Front to Back and Left to Right. Basically the maximum usable area of the bolster, or the largest die shoe which will fit in the press. Stroke and maximum shut height are important as well.
Robin: Just curious, you say you're not part of Magna anymore. Was that your die grinding job? If so, what happened? In the past you said you might be taking some engineering courses. What happened to that idea?
I can't go into specifics, but leaving was an overall positive experience. I can't say I miss the work. It's nice to come home not looking like a coal miner...
It is my intent to go to university in September 2008. I need to pick up some high-school credits in order to apply, so I'll be doing that between now and January 2008.
I guess it's my intent to get this stuff rolling over the next year and a half. I have friends who will be working with me on the project. School only runs 8 of 12 months, so there will be time (ha!) while I'm in school, but I don't think I'd be getting my hands too dirty during the school year.
AH!! ok. Makes sense. Ive worked on a few of them, more shears and breaks but never heard the term.
Gunner
"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal, kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do." -- Terry Pratchett
"There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal, kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do." -- Terry Pratchett
I use/own amongst others, a 250 ton hyd press to do medal/coining work .Runs up to 12,000psi hyd pressure. Its a die breaker if your not careful. top plate is 6in thick by 24in sq bottom plate 12in thick by 24in sq, with upstroke 9in dia. ram. coloums 4in dia . top bolster plate on the ram is 12in sq. 3in thick. All high tensile tool steel. I wouldnt dream ever to use it with the dies off center. there too valuable /expensive to replace. So what your trying to do is do big. offset work in a small press. Cant be done with safety. Get a press thats big enough so the work is never off center. always central to the energy delivery point You sound like a student with great ideas but no experience . A fatal combination.
theres no way you can build a safe press with everything you need let alone the supporting equipment and space, for less that the cost of buying a good one s/hand. you talking thousands of dollars anyway. thats the real world. Im not knocking you or your idea. Just my 2 pence worh as a press owner and user. For the record I also use drop stamps/hammers ranging from 20 to to 100 ton dynamic energy. these are for very fast work, ie where you dont want a slow squeeze but a very rapid delivery of the deforming energy. thats so the work doesnt get the chance to work harden in moving. Oldest I have is 1880, the hyd press is 1960. Im sorta inbetween. your best bet is to look at explosive deformation under water, so much simpler.
The 2500T hydraulic presses at my old work are certainly die breakers as well. They'll snap them in half easily (beds on the order of 5x3.5 meters)
Panel dies are never perfect circumstances. Normally the dies just barely fit in the presses. Forget locating them for perfect balance. And you have to finish a panel in 4 or 5 operations - *no* options.
You've never built panel dies, eh?
I'm a certified tool and die maker. I've worked only on panel dies in the automotive industry.
Panel dies are never fully balanced, especially during tryout.
Tool and die makers don't work in absolutes.
Well, yes.
I have to use technology that is being used currently for producition. The point is to make dies to be sold to stampers (roughly).
Hi Robin, Thanks for the background to what you do and what you want the press for. As you want to make dies for panel work thats a different world to what I do. your I guess stretching and forming sheet metal on a big scale, wheras im minting 1/4in thick metal. up to 5in in dia.# As for my dies thats differnt again, im using grane the swedish tool thats cut from a resin negative that is taken from a positive model usually 4 to 6 times the final die image size. Then hardened under vacumn. I donnt make my own dies but make the product for my own sales or as comissions for other co's or museums. I do all the desgn work as well as the production. My 250 tonner was originally designed as a laboratory test press for concrete , and I bought it s/h some 20 yrs ago for $700.00. Weighs some
2 ton and I had to fetch it from 200 miles away. I still think that you should look for a s/h press as with the automotive world in the US apparently in decline you might just find one for scrap price. Heavy iron makes $150.00 a ton here right now. deliverd to the scrap yard. So that would be your barganing price per ton of press. Im sure youll find one if you look around and ask about. Afterall your die users will have presses and will know who is on hard times and might just be closing down. Worth taking over where its at and moving house to the press!!. location. worth a thought. Ted
This web site has a really neat utility called Beam Boy. Use it too calculate loads and deflection and other stuff. Don't know if it will solve the current problem, but it's pretty useful.
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