I Collect Pulleys

Hey Bob,

Bringing back some very past memories. I was a Maintenance Supervisor at a Plastic Extrusion Company for 14 years. Don't know if this will help or not but on the Compressed Air issue we had 2 compressors that ran 24/7 with one as a backup. When one went down or due for some service the backup unit was powered up. As production increased the challenge was getting enough air for all. These compressors were feeding into a direct line to production. NO Surge Tank!!

I took it on as "MY" engineering project and ran all the numbers which included a 800 Gallon Surge Tank on a concrete pad outside the compressor room. Also included 3" bypass valves and all piping and air regulator.

I calculated the total cost at the time to be about $3,000. I presented my proposal to my boss who was the Executive VP of Engineering and he was a bit overwhelmed and wanted to know how I got all my numbers.

My numbers included the power cost of running each compressor 24/7. I rented a GE or Fluke 3 Phase Power Analyzer and processed the KW cost to get the usage numbers. He said he would look at the proposal and let me know. BTW the project at $3,000. would have paid for itself in about 2-3 months. It took him 3 months to get back to me with an OK to proceed. &^%$&*%$*&(&(UY%%*

I ordered the 800 gallon tank and started the prep work on the concrete pad, got it poured and actually placed a PVC Time Capsule in the pad with some stuff of the day and a letter signed by the day shift employees. I really don't know if it has been broken into at this point in time, it was maybe 35+ years ago.

Did all the piping and connected the compressors and opened the main valve. Once the tank was at full pressure and the air regulator was set to needed pressure to production the compressors started to cycle on/off. Sometimes off for maybe 5 minutes or more. Once the plant was in full production I figured that the the compressor run time was cut by 40-50%. 🙂

Anyhow, all the above to say that if you can increase the size of your air surge tank, (if you have one) you would be pleased with the results and your compressor will run even better.

I hope that the above story was a good read.

Also, it brought back some good memories of another LIFE!!

Have a good week!!

Les

Makes me wish I hadn't turned the tank from my old compressor into a giant hibachi.

Hi Les, How is retirement treating you? If you are getting bored I have an unused camper out back of the shop, and I could sure use somebody to shovel up chips part time. LOL.

I was running three machines for several hours today, and I didn't notice the compressor kick on more often than normal. Two of those machines use air seal spindles. From inside my office I didn't notice it kick on at all (quieter I guess). Several times I walked back to check the high pressure on the tank to make sure it had been kicking on. It visually and audibly starts easier, and it has not tripped the motor thermal even once.

Oh, just heard it kick on, and noticed the back door of my office is open to the shop floor.

I wonder if in the interest of pushing theoretical CFM for the marketing department they didn't overload that motor with a to large motor pulley from the factory. I kinda wish I'd pointed my laser tachometer at the old pulley before I swapped it out now.

... and it just kicked off. Now I'm not running max air consumption so time off is no indicator, but on time just now didn't seem a lot longer than normal. Maybe not at all. I guess I'll have to wait for a day when I am running all three machines with air seals and see what happens. I don't think the 33% reduction in capacity (by the numbers) is that bad in practice. It might be worth it in motor/compressor life. I probably won't be able to run air cooling on a steel cutting job, and all the air sealed high speed spindle machines at the same time. I do have a couple other smaller compressors I could press into service, but I wouldn't be able to run them through the air dryer.

Anyway...

Bob, As for the retirement word........... Does not exist......... I QUIT!! However, every day is a SATURDAY!! (almost) Some days it flips!!!

As for the camper... well thanks for the offer.... but no, thanks!! 🙂

As for your compressed air challenge, it seems to me you need to work on a better plan!! From 2,000 miles away it will be hard for me to help. This might help you start to do the thinking process!! LOL

Although, I kinda miss that part of my history. Working on machines, and stuff!! etc. etc.

We had a pair of cooling fans (32" Diameter) that needed to be placed in the compressor room. I designed a bracket frame out of 2"x2"x1/8 steel angle with a support bracket to be mounted on the wall of the room. The room was about 20'x20' with a ceiling/roof at about 30 feet. That is when I actually learned (taught myself) how to stick weld. The welds looked horrible!! But, the cooling fans are still mounted on the wall today. That was maybe 45 years ago. Yea!!

Again a lot of memories!!

Later,

Les

Its funny. I was running a 3.7 HP 60 gallon 150 PSI compressor in the shop and it kept up okay before buying this 5HP 80 gallon 175. It carried every machine just fine, but was overwhelmed if I was also running air cooling on the Hurco mill cutting steel. I hate to say it but the Lowes Kobalt compressor was a better machine. Fuck Ingersol Rand. The only reason I bought it was because the motor smoked on the Kobalt on a Sunday morning and I thought (MISTAKENLY) that the bigger IR I could buy on a Sunday would do a better job. I'm not sure if I said this yet, but FUCK INGERSOL RAND. Ordinarily I would have just slapped a new motor on the Kobalt. I should have bought another Kobalt instead. FUCK INGERSOL RAND!!! Not that I am bitter or anything.

Nah, the Kobalt wasn't really any better. I had to work on it all the time. Leaky check valve, flaky unloader, flaky pressure switch, etc, but it cost a lot less, and it did last a lot longer.

Bob,

Well it has been a l-o-n-g time but I seem to remember that we had

2 rotary screw compressors and the back up was a two piston unit. I think the one rotary screw was a 200HP Sullair and the other was a Ingersol Rand. All were 3 phase machines. From your description of what you have in comparison, yours are bit of toys!! LOL

From what you have typed compressed air is a vital part of your shop and needs a serious amount of attention.

Don't take this the wrong way but "cheap" is not always the best solution!! But, then I guess you know that!!

Hope you have a good week!!

Les

Its funny. I was running a 3.7 HP 60 gallon 150 PSI compressor in the shop and it kept up okay before buying this 5HP 80 gallon 175. It carried every machine just fine, but was overwhelmed if I was also running air cooling on the Hurco mill cutting steel. I hate to say it but the Lowes Kobalt compressor was a better machine. ... Nah, the Kobalt wasn't really any better. I had to work on it all the time. Leaky check valve, flaky unloader, flaky pressure switch, etc, but it cost a lot less, and it did last a lot longer.

Bob La Londe

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I have the equivalent 3.7HP 80 gallon Husky from Home Depot, bought cheap because it apparently had fallen over. The pump was gone and perhaps the pressure switch, I don't remember. I installed an HF air pump and rearranged the plumbing and wiring from my parts collection to my taste, to monitor and adjust performance. The Wattmeter showed higher than nameplate motor current above ~100PSI so I changed to a 4" pulley which brought it down to 13 -

14A. I didn't have a 4-1/2" or 5" to try. The motor stayed cool the few times I've run it continuously.

I added a 240V 20A outlet so the $16 PZEM-061 Wattmeter can also show the current and power drawn by external loads when I'm experimenting, like a Kill-A-Watt for 240V. With CNC milling the opening in an electrical box cover to snap in the meter display should be easier than on my antique manual mill.

I can say I really like the Harbor Freight "repair/replacement" pump. I have one on my roll around and another on the shelf. I have a spare 5HP motor on the shelf now too. I guess next I should order a backup pressure switch from McMaster. I already have spare intank check valves. I think like their electric motors its better than the pumps that actually come on the compressors they currently sell.

The Smith & Jones farm duty motors are pretty decent. They just don't sell one big enough for my air compressor.

and rearranged the plumbing and wiring from my parts collection to

How can I help but take it the wrong way. Or maybe its not the wrong way. So:

"If I can't afford $43K for a 100HP 460 Volt 3 Phase Quincy scroll compressor and another $43K for a backup, I shouldn't be allowed to have an air compressor at all?"

"Since I can't afford a hundred grand to bring 460V 3phase into my shop I shouldn't be allowed to have electricity?"

"If I can't afford $320K-$380K for a tricked out Haas VM-6 I shouldn't be allowed to own a milling machine?"

"I should tell all my customers I refuse to do all those small jobs from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars that are my bread and butter? I shouldn't accept jobs less 10K units and $100K?"

Les, one of those things that drives me bonkers in the machining groups are guys who look down on what I have and do because, "They can hold tenths all day long." Yes they can. On the half million dollar Mori Seiki that belongs to their boss's bank. I hold a couple thousandths all day long on machines that belong to me. Not my boss, and not my bank. If I need to make parts hit tolerances better than that I can. Its just more work, and its me making it happen. Not a machine that bleeds money. Interestingly many guys who actually own shops/businesses and own their equipment seem to respect what I do. Even on the Internet where there is little or no risk of getting poked in the nose. I used to joke that someday I want to be a real machinist. Michael Yellowhair (owner of Praxis Precision), told me, "Bob you do real work that people pay for and you get repeat customers because they are happy with it. You ARE a real machinist." He was the first one, but I noticed there is a big difference between the guys who are drawing a paycheck, and the guys who are risking their own.

Ingersol Rand used to be somebody in the industry, but their two stage

80 gallon compressor is garbage. I jumped at it at the time (because I could get it on a Sunday and keep working) before I knew they had sold out their name for profits over all else. Just so you know, there is a local Quincy dealer. I can't afford a real Quincy, but they make small units too. I looked at one and was astonished to find it had the EXACT SAME Indian pump as some store brands. Right down to the same casting marks and an artifact/defects defect from the mold or pattern. Maybe they have a better check valve. maybe they have a better pressure switch. Maybe they have a better unloader. Maybe they even have a better motor and starting setup, but I sure couldn't see past that cheap cast pump from India. I'd rather have a Chinese pump from Harbor Freight. I know its better. I've had one on my Campbell Hausfeld 30 year old roll around for 15 years or so. In fact it has run the shop a few times when I had to work on the main shop compressor. More so it was my first shop compressor. I had it running all the plumbing when I first installed all my air lines. When I reached the point when it was on more than off I upgraded to my very first stationary compressor.

I do have a couple IR air tools made many years prior that are top notch, but never again. If I need a "best" air tool in the future I'll go back to Chicago Pneumatic. In fact the last air tool I bought is a CP. A pneumatic rivet gun. I had people warning me about going with a pneumatic instead of an electric, but then I looked up the service interval on the CP and checked customer reviews. CP recommends checking the hydraulic fluid level after 100,000 rivets. As a former IR customers I recommend buy a Chicago Pneumatic. LOL.

FYI: I used to do warranty service on several brands of air compressors. I worked at a place called Tool & Supply of Yuma before I started The Security Consultant, and I kept working there for about a year after. I set us up doing warranty repair and service. I was able to correctly complete most repairs in about 50% of book time. I'm not expert, but I know my way around an air compressor. I don't know if its still true, but back then the Rollaire compressors required less service or repair than any other brand. Lots of garages and tire shops back than ran a couple of their two stage 80 gallons. They ran all day long everyday, and they hardly ever failed. Most of the time they were outside exposed to the weather. Most with little more than an awning to keep direct sunlight and rain off of them.

Let me draw a parallel. Back in 1993 when I signed my first contracting job I didn't have a truck. I hired a buddy by offering to split the net with him because he had a truck. I didn't have a half inch drill either. A top of the line name brand was a couple hundred bucks at Tool and Supply or a "consumer grade" Black & Decker was $29.95 at K-Mart. I bought the Black & Decker. When I finished the job I bought a corded and a cordless Makita. The biggest and baddest they had. I still have the Black & Decker. I've gotten it so hot it smoked more than once, and it will still drive a forstner bit through a 2x4. If I had refused to buy anything but best of the best of everything I never would have been able to say I retired from contracting after 23 years. I've had dozens of drills and maybe a dozen trucks since then, but if I had held out for a brand new service truck and all top name brand new tools I would have never signed that first job.

...A top of the line name brand was a couple hundred bucks at Tool and Supply or a "consumer grade" Black & Decker was $29.95 at K-Mart. I bought the Black & Decker. When I finished the job I bought a corded and a cordless Makita. The biggest and baddest they had. I still have the Black & Decker. I've gotten it so hot it smoked more than once, and it will still drive a forstner bit through a 2x4. If I had refused to buy anything but best of the best of everything I never would have been able to say I retired from contracting after 23 years. I've had dozens of drills and maybe a dozen trucks since then, but if I had held out for a brand new service truck and all top name brand new tools I would have never signed that first job.

Calm Down Bob!!

I understand, totally!!

I wasn't saying you need to up grade to a 200HP Rotary Screw Compressor. But, only suggesting that somehow getting a larger surge tank would be beneficial to your daily challenge. Adding one more would help!!

The company I worked for was a $8-$10 Million Dollar/year company. After I quit them some years later sold out to another and the whole place shutdown. The new owner of the property converted the place into a Machine Shop and then I installed a Security System in the building that I knew better than the new owner. In my old office on the wall was my magnetic board with all my Planned Maintenance Schedule PMS with all my little Weekly/Monthly/Semi-Annual/Annual Tabs. I hadn't been there for almost 20 years and the board was STILL there in my old office!!!

Don't go more than you can, so you don't come up short!!

Keep up the good work. Satisfaction is always best!!

Have a better rest of the week!!

Les

I bought the "best" when I could afford to, but I never let it stop me from getting a job done either.

I used a similarly cheap B&D circular saw for breaking down steel for years with an abrasive blade. I made a lot of DirecTV and Primestar dish non-penetrating roof mounts by breaking down old steel bread racks for the angle iron with one back in the mid 90s. I might still have it, although now I tend to use other tools, and my dirty saw is a cheap Ryobi. It sits on the shelf under a work bench right next to my Skil worm drive.

You should have seen what I wanted to post yesterday. LOL.

That reminds me. I still have a scroll pump AC compressor (burnout) I replaced setting out back that I want to cut open and tear down to see how it works.

Well said. Great thick layers of reality in there in many planes.

I made a lot of DirecTV and Primestar dish non-penetrating roof mounts by breaking down old steel bread racks for the angle iron with one back in the mid 90s.

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How were they non-penetrating?

I ask because I suspend my roof solar panels from these:

and depend on their weight and a wide base to keep the wind from moving them. I'm still looking for a good permanent location for them, having just removed trees that shaded (and threatened) much of the roof much of the day. Also the chimney cleaning platform rests on pipe uprights sealed with vent stack boots and is further secured at the upper end to steel straps run under the shingles.

If you have another nonintrusive way to mount things on a shingled roof I'd like to know.

I installed the pipe uprights and boots when I reshingled, and didn't properly fit the shingles around them, so the next rain dripped onto and stained my just-paid-off deed in the incoming mail from the mortgage company on the table below. Karma?

[...]

As if Bob didn't already know that.

(A 'spaining about how running a business is a bit different than working for somebody who does.)

We used them on flat roof installations. Basically a piece of tube/pipe the right size for the dish hardware welded/bolted/super-glued (just kidding) to a rectangular frame. You put the dish on them, and then filled the frame with concrete blocks. I'm not so sure the roof could handle the weight load for an adequate number of concrete blocks to wind load a roof full of solar panels.

To be fair, Les is also a retired communications contractor / business owner.

The non penetrating roof mounts worked great for the small DishNet, DirecTV, and PrimeStar dishes. For a short time (year or so) I also subcontracted service work for a Muzak(tm) installing company. They used a larger dish, and even many of those were just weighted down with bricks.

Growing up I installed a fair number of the old C-band dishes. We always mounted them on heavy steel tube set in concrete in the ground.

We used them on flat roof installations. Basically a piece of tube/pipe the right size for the dish hardware welded/bolted/super-glued (just kidding) to a rectangular frame. You put the dish on them, and then filled the frame with concrete blocks.

<< So ballasted, on a flat roof. >>

I'm not so sure the roof could handle the weight load for an adequate number of concrete blocks to wind load a roof full of solar panels.

<< Maybe not, I have only 300W up there and an antenna mast and the platform support pipe to guy them both ways horizontally. >>