But Tom, think positively. You are under pressure from customers to keep your prices reasonable. By becoming more efficient you can do that and employ say 10 people instead of 20, so 10 lose their jobs, which is a shame. But, on the positive side, you are still employing and providing jobs for
10, whereas if you could not compete, you would go broke and not have any employees, so 20 jobs lost and you would have no income for yourself. Alan in beautiful Golden Bay, Western Oz, South 32.25.42, East 115.45.44 GMT+8 VK6 YAB ICQ 6581610 to reply, change oz to au in address
Yea, it was your threads I was following. A good friend of mine and sometimes consultant for special projects sums it up thus: " It's a circle of guys polishing each other's shoes and everyone gets a little polish 'till its gone but nobody is making any polish...the system is not sustainable." I'm really having doubts if this industrial revolution thing was the right way to go. What are people going to do when they run out of polish?
If I EVER do the ISO thing, please shoot me! I have cherry-picked some good things from ISO but mostly it's just a way to exclude suppliers from the "Boyz Club" I'm certainly no expert on it but any system that excludes (un)common sense... I was always taught that "Quality" was a subjective thing. It's not the highest quality for the application, it's the RIGHT quality for the application. It still should be the right mix of "rightquality", price and service that counts. My industry is mature and shrinking, there ARE no frontiers. Participants gain market share with buy-outs, improve productivity with technology, and out-source volume items to China. I'm still concerned who is going to buy my industrial products when industry is gone or who is going to buy ANYTHING with a burger-flipping income, or who is going to be able to afford burgers?
9001 is largely BS but unfortunately we will have to bite the bullet and do it if we want to get any export business. My software is ISO9001. I have a $50,000 300+ page document that is growing every day full of crap that says so. I had to do it to keep a couple of clients in Bermuda but the customers are international banks that don't seem to think money is actually a real thing so I could charge it all to them. :-)
For a small software sh> If I EVER do the ISO thing, please shoot me! I have cherry-picked some good
upper Midwest... sure, I could work for supertech wages (one reason I relocated here, to relieve the salary pressure) and have submitted my resume for jobs which would represent up to a 75% pay cut (that's right, willing to work for 25 cents on the dollar I was making)...so far, nothing (except a little substitute teaching...that would be 25 cents on the dollar IF it were consistent, unfortunately it is sporadic as they have over 1,000 subs registered in this area)
BTW--a REAL supertech would probably be much quicker at finding most problems than I would be...slightly different mindset for techs vs. engineers...of course, I'm sure I could find much tougher ones!
I have people that can't count, read a tape measure, have never had a checking or savings account... they live paycheck to paycheck but help support a family and community. I see the only other alternative to these lower end jobs is to suck the public teat. No satisfaction in that for people at all. So the jobs that go belong to the people that can least afford to be unemployed. Some will say that these jobs shouldn't exist anyway. I have mixed feeling, part of me feels empathy and part of me is responsible to the stock holders to maximize their investment...of which I am one.
. I'm still concerned who is going to buy my industrial products
burger-flipping
Exactly!. The concept of higher and higher wages, even for jobs that can't be sent to China, is going to undo our society unless serious changes are made, and soon. The very idea that one is guaranteed any given wage is insane. All that does is encourage deadbeats to continue the course, never preparing for life, assuming they will be able to get a menial task job and demand a living wage. Sorry, Charlie, I don't agree, nor do I feel anyone is owed a living. Can't speak for others, but I've actually worked for my fortune, such as it is. I fully expect others to do the same, and to be paid in keeping with the contribution to society, only at face value, not some inflated one that so many seem to feel they are worth.
It is my opinion that if someone, anyone, can take away your job, it isn't worth much. Only those with specific training (schooling) and talent (experience) should be in the position to expect more than minimum pay. Some how, we have to convey that message to the young folks coming up and encourage them to get proper training, be it vocational or in pursuit of a degree from the local college. We have to find a way to make things equitable, to put value back in service, to accept pay in keeping with the VALUE. If you have an employee that can't read a tape, where I come from that's called a trainee, and he should be paid appropriately.
Umm, harold, if their wages are inflated, then they will wind up paying more of your social security! The flip side is, if you see them tossed out of work, or working at mcd's, then nobody *will* pay your SS!
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
Ok, I seem to have found one person who agrees with me, that if the better paying technical and manufacturing jobs go overseas, and the wages are depressed here (as harold suspects they will) then this might have some effect on the overall market for goods and services in the US.
In other words, laid-off folks don't buy much of anything.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
Actually, we had an official briefing on that the other day.
They didn't say explicitly, but it sounded as if the tech who said: "There seem to be some bolts missing" was fired, among others. I'm not so sure about the engineer who replied "Don't worry about it..."
The theory we operate under is that we make one work, then make the rest just like that one, because no one really knows how to predict all the consequences of any change -- not that we don't actually make plenty of changes...
And yes, we start with "cutting edge" technology in the hopes that we can still find the stuff which will be hopelessly obsolete by the end of the program.
Isn't it a bit ironic that cable tv works very hard to prosecute people who get their programming without paying while THEY get and RESELL broadcast tv without compensating THOSE CONTENT PROVIDERS? Makes you wonder who the true pirates are...
Lower wages, those that are really earned, would be the answer to the problem. If manufacturers had a conscience, they would price their products in accordance with expenses, allowing for a REASONABLE profit, and if expenses were in line with reality, the price of products would, likewise, be reasonable. Assuming that scenario was true, perhaps I would then be rewarded with lower prices at the grocery and other stores, making my limited money still pay for my needs. This endless cycle of demanding more for less is a big part of why we're where we are today as we relate to the rest of the world. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the American worker is way too arrogant, way too over paid to go along with it. If I'm wrong, how is it that so much of our industry is leaving?
You seem to have a particular axe to grind with SS. I'm not sure we've ever discussed your age, but judging from a photo of you I saw about three years ago, I'd suggest you are in your mid 40's. That being the case, you'll find that you will approach SS retirement age in one hell of a hurry. Time zips by when you're busy, and I think, from our endless conversations, that you are a busy person, certainly not a couch potato. Having stated these great words of wisdom, trust me that as you approach retirement age, you're going to see SS from a totally different perspective. As much as I detested it, the very fact that they held me captive with the demands to pay into the system, again, at 15%, not the half you've become accustomed to paying, I now see it from a different position. . No, I do not agree with it, not any more than I did previously. However, now that my pocket has been relieved of the money, I want it back as was suggested to me through the years. You will, too. Trust me. And you'll rejoice when the first payment hits your checking account, just as I did one year ago.
By the way, part of the reason I chose to retire so young (54) was to end (or limit) the cycle of being taxed at every turn. I realized that if I wasn't extravagant, I could get by on a small income, which we do. Understand we do not live like we're broke, in spite of the fact that we have a limited income. When you own everything outright, and have money drawing interest instead of paying it, the world takes on a different meaning.
I'm also pleased to tell you that Susan is the type of woman that makes due, without complaint, that which we have. She is just as happy with a burger when we go to town as many women may be with a cut of prime rib. We are simple people, living in a simple way. Both of us, in spite of our conservative ways, however, enjoy a hobby that is expensive. Instead of running lines of coke, punching needles into our arms, drinking ourselves into insanity, or paying for and using weed, we spend our free money on things that make sense, at least to us. I enjoy my machines and the stereo system, and Susan enjoys her art glass collection. We didn't quit living when we went into retirement, the only real change was the lowering of our income.
I'm having a bit of a struggle coming to terms with your statement above. Isn't that exactly what I've been saying right along? What I've proposed is folks coming to terms with their inflated incomes and settling for pay in keeping with its value. That, in turn, keeps them on the job, albeit at a lower income, because the savings to the corporation that may have been realized by jumping to China, for example, no longer exists. We keep jobs home, inflation is not a problem (not out of control), and perhaps prices at the store even decline to some degree. Not many of us prefer no money as opposed to less money. I think rational people would accept a pay cut instead of a pink slip.
We can not solve this problem with legislation or tariffs. As long as we insist that we are worth more than the rest of the world, the exodus will never end, not until there's nothing left that can leave. The foreign countries will see to it. They want the work. Only equilibrium, by any means, will stop the flow. It's like drugs. Until the profit is removed from drugs, they will persist, and stronger than our ability to resist them.
We have a TV, but no live feed into the house. So we can watch recorded stuff that we choose. This works out pretty well, we do a library run once a week and get a stack of books to work through.
My daughter was recently rewarded with a small portable dvd player, for watching stuff in her room.
Jim
================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ==================================================
I want to commend you on your story. There are lessons here that would keep people out of financial trouble. My plan is to retire in 3 1/2 years at 57.
Actually, they do have to pay the content providers, unless they're operating merely as a community antenna system. The FCC changed the cable rules a few years back. A station can now elect to either be "must carry" or an "enhanced content provider".
Under "must carry", the cable system is treated as a community antenna system, and does not have to compensate the broadcaster, but must carry its signal as part of the "basic" cable package.
Under "enchanced content", the cable company must negotiate for, and pay for, the right to carry the broadcaster's signal, same as they've always done for content providers like HBO or Showtime. In return, the cable company gets to price the local broadcast content the same way it does other cable channels. In other words, it doesn't have to include local channels as part of the "basic" cable package unless it wants to.
Nice idea, but in this current culture..it will never work.
"How Dare you say that my contribution is worth less than that person over there! I work 8 hours a day, very hard, filing these papers. She only works 4-6 hours a day, and comes in when she wants to. Just because she is an outside sales person, doenst mean that her contribution is any more important than mine!! If these papers dont get filed in the correct order, the business would simply fall apart.
If you think that you are going to harm my self esteem like that, its workplace harrasment and Im going to consult a lawyer and sue your ass off! Its not FAIR that she gets paid more than I do!! Why should SHE get a commission? Its not FAIR!!! "
(snip a long diatribe about the MTV generation and value systems)
Gunner
Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.