incredible price of copper

jgandalf wrote in article ...

Doesn't the entire statement go, "Here....hold my beer and watch this."?

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Interesting. In colonial rural United States the method was to put cows in the barn and pigs beneath. With the addition of the fish below the pigs you would certainly be using your resources to the max.

dennis in nca

Reply to
rigger

Wiring with aluminum wasn't/isn't a problem. It *BECOMES* a problem when you start mixing copper and aluminum without doing it properly.

A house wired with straight aluminum is absolutely no different than a house wired with copper, in terms of either function or safety, so long as the *ENTIRE* house is wired with aluminum, and/or any copperaluminum joints are done correctly. (Meaning use of proper connectors between them, and/or use of readily available, cheap, and quite effective anti-corrosion compounds during assembly)

Reply to
Don Bruder

The price of AL is high enough that here on the central coast of CA that NONE of the scrap yards around the Salinas Valley will accept AL agricultural irrigation pipe... but they WILL call the Sheriff :-) It's getting pretty bad here abouts, all the Ag gas/diesel tanks are now indoors, and it's like bunkers and barbed wire around the nitrate based fertilizer... (usta be one stop shopping to get yer ANFO all in one place)....

--.- Dave

Reply to
Dave August

Copper is so bad that air conditioners are being stolen - not the window size - but the big ones mounted on a pad. Lots of copper.

Builders are using armed guards to protect building sites.

Makes one wonder what just happened - it isn't just the prices...

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member

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Dave August wrote:

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

Then you get the wiring devices I ran into in BiL's mobile in Florida

- push the insulated wire into the slot like the phone tech. does. Brought a couple home for the local inspector to add to his box of horrors. Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Reply to
Gerald Miller

============= IMNSHO you are exactly correct.

We have imported and "re-introduced" a distinct criminal under class, with their own ethics, mores, perceptions-of-the-world, etc., who are now multiplying at an astounding rate. This is nothing new in American culture -- think Billy the Kid and Al Capone -- but was gradually being phased out in the streets even as it flourished in the board rooms.

So far the main thrust of the neo-crime families has been crimes against property, but as the authorities stall on border security and waffle on meaningful prosecution with long prison sentences, crimes against persons will increase such as kidnapping and extortion.

To see what you have to look forward to:

Gunmen toss 5 human heads on dance floor By JULIE WATSON, Associated Press Writer 24 minutes ago MEXICO CITY - In a horrifying show of brutality, gunmen barged into a bar in central Mexico early Wednesday and tossed five human heads on the dance floor, after covering patrons with their weapons, officials said. for rest of item see

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Unka George (George McDuffee) ============================= When you give power to an executive you do not know who will be filling that position when the time of crisis comes.

Ernest Hemingway (1899-1961), U.S. author. "Notes on the Next War: A Serious Topical Letter," in Esquire (New York, Sept. 1935; repr. in By-Line Ernest Hemingway, ed. by William White, 1967).

Reply to
F. George McDuffee

Entirely incorrect. The issues with AL wire are not related to copper-AL connections, they are issues inherent to the AL itself.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

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It is about $3.50/ pound That is double the price of 2.5 years ago.

IIRC my father reading me the paper in 1961, Copper was $.25/ pound and steel was $.10/ pound.

I had quite the Copper collection from my uncle rebuilding a Navy torpedo chaser and removing the Copper riveted double planks.

Reply to
Clark Magnuson

Now Now. Copper is related to the problem in that copper is extremely tolerant and allows for very sloppy or poor connections to still function. Yes, aluminium requires better connectors, and better connections.

Yes, the major transmission lines are steel reinforced. Certainly the ones I saw installed from Kitimat BC back in 1957 were. Those need to handle long runs and ice build up, probably rated for at least 40 pounds per foot. But the line coming up to your shop does NOT have any steel in it,

powerless either.

Today we take aluminium for granted, but I can assure you that the copper interests have been around much longer. The politics of using aluminium wiring in houses probably dates back to the 50's and 60's The aluminium industry began in the late 1800's and really got going during the 1920's and 30's, I don't know that I would say they were "tiny and powerless" but I would say that the copper lobby put forth a very strong and successful campaign to promote their product over aluminium. Aluminium delivers more electricity per dollar, and more per pound than copper. It has been illegal to use copper in home wiring in other countries for a number of years now because it was seen as a waste of the resource.

Yes, I agree with that, copper is so forgiving that almost any idiot can wire up a switch or plug, and our hardware industry is happy to supply cheap lousy connectors to weekend warriors with a honey do list.

Kirk

Reply to
1968fj40

Horseshit.

You claim problems inherent in aluminum. Name them.

Reply to
Don Bruder

True indeed. When there are tons and tons of high grade aluminum pipe laying around ..it was pretty common to see 3' joints of it in the scrappers. WHen too much of it showed up..one could expect see a perp walk and the scrapper shut down before long.

A rancher/farmer friend of mine tried to scrap out a couple thousand pounds of his own pipe..tractor hits and so forth..and had to bring in his id, intent to sell on his letter head and so forth before the scrappers would take it.

He didnt mind, as he had lost a lot of pipe over the years to thieves. I used to do stakeouts on pipe thieves. Caught quite a number of them over the years. Usually the same bunches or families

Gunner

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences."

- Proverbs 22:3

Reply to
Gunner

Its such a problem here in las vegas that the cops are staking out scrap yards arresting the thieves and ticketing the yard owners. Fox had a report tonight, nevada power rep said even energized substations have been the victimized by thieves. Expect the gene pool to be reduced along with some new darwin award winners.

Best Regards Tom.

Reply to
azotic

Exactly my point, copper is inherently safer in practice than AL since it requires less skill to get a safe connection.

The line coming into my shop does not have any AL in it either. It's also two gauges heavier than code minimum to limit voltage drop under heavy load.

powerless either.

Ok, but the politics don't negate the very real reasons that AL can be problematic for residential electrical use.

Almost any idiot can indeed wire a switch or plug, the issue is whether they can do it safely. If they have enough sense to not use push wire devices (not to be confused with screw clamping back wire devices) they have a very good chance of making a safe connection using copper wire. Given AL wire and the same knowledge level they have a very good chance of making an unsafe connection.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

Cold flow. Large expansion cooeficient. Rapid oxidation with insulating Aluminum Oxide. Lower melting point contributing to larger "cold flow" when under moderate electrical load and heating. Lower fatigue life than copper and long term embrittlement.

Probably more...

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

Quickwire receptacles are enough horror when used on Copper wire -

20 years later and someone's tracking down the open circuit at the bad receptacle. (Just had to track one down last week.) They should NEVER have allowed Quickwire ports on devices rated for Aluminum wire, but even when marked "Put AL wire on screws only"...

Stupid Happens, Dumbth Varies.

(I should make bumper stickers...)

This is why DIY work is fine on electrical - ONLY as long as you learn enough to not be dangerous, and to know what you DON'T know.

Better to make the Codes say "Aluminum wire on single-outlet dedicated circuits only" and not give the idjits any wiggle room to use it on receptacle branch circuits again - and build a years delayed fire starter.

Oh, and be careful when cutting AL transmission wire or AL "Bronco" drop wire used from pole-to-house - Find out what you have first.

If you use 'soft' wire cutters meant for AL or Copper and try them on ACSR, that steel strand hiding at the center of the bare AL messenger conductor will totally trash the cutter blades. Surprise!

Probably how I got that $700 pair of HK Porter chain-ratchet cable cutters at a garage sale for $2 with thrashed blades - I convinced them that it was "going to a good home". Now I just need to go drop $125 on a set of new blades when I need to use them.

-->--

Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

"R. Zimmerman" wrote in news:mHyLg.509094$Mn5.95610 @pd7tw3no:

In the '60s, there was a rash of powerline cable thefts with a unique touch: the wire was gone but NOT the insulation.

The problem was resolved when a sharp-eyed state trooper spotted the end of a copper cable wiggling down the road just ahead of his car and proceeded to follow it.

The wire disappeared into the back of a van which, when stopped, had a winch with a large reel in the back.

The theif would go up 1 pole and snip the wire then drive a mile down the road and do it again. He'd, then, attach a clamp on the isolated section and, using a rope attached to the clamp, proceed to pull out enough wire to attach it to the winch drum.

All he had to do, then, was to drive off - pulling the wire out of the insulation - and, once free, to activate the winch to spool the wire.

If that trooper hadn't been bored, the theif might still be at it...

Reply to
RAM³

Don Bruder wrote in news:44ffa2a5$0$96161$ snipped-for-privacy@news.sonic.net:

#1: Thermal Expansion

The Thermal Expansion/Contraction of Al wire results in the loosening of connections, particularly at switches/outlets.

Over time, this results in the creation of an electrical arc which can (and often has) result in the ignition and combustion of (a.) the wire itself, (b.) the plastic housing of the switch/outlet, and/or (c.) the insulation surrounding the wire.

This combustion, especially in a wood-framed building, can (and often did) result in a major house fire with a strong potential for loss of human life.

#2. Availability of proper switches/outlets

Since the virtual abandonment of Al wiring, few manufacturers supply the Al-specific switches/outlets designed to address/reduce the problems with Thermal Expansion.

Reply to
RAM³

That story is a little hard to believe, that a mile long wire can be pulled out of insulation???

i
Reply to
Ignoramus1759

My thoughts as well. There's also the issue of the wire being bound tightly to the pole insulators.

Reply to
Jim Stewart

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