"Kero-tran" as cutting oil

I occasionally use a 50/50 mixture of kerosene and transmission fluid. Maybe I don't have exough experience with it to know the difference but AFAICT it is no better, no worse,
than any other petroleum-based cutting oil. Comments from the group, please.
Bob Swinney
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http://www.havoline.com/images/products/pdfs/trans_mercondex3.pdf
ATF is apparently kerosine with a few additives.
jw
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wrote:

Seems very unlikely. How did you arrive at that conclusion from the MSDS?
--
Ned Simmons

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I have the same question.
Harold
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OK, light oil. There's no sharp dividing line.
jw
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It's a 5 weight oil with a heavy detergent and anti-foaming package.
--
Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty
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wrote:

I would suggest that for light alloy and possibly yellow metals, it might work similarly to the commercial stuff. For hard work on carbon and alloy steels, I would suspect that the lack of chlorine or sulphur in the oil would cause it to perform poorly, compared with a conventional neat oil.
It'll wash the chips away as well as anything else though.
YMMV Mark Rand RTFM
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ATF seems to be an all-purpose elixer with this group, and it always makes me uncomfortable for a couple of reasons. One is that there is no common characteristic among today's ATFs -- they're very different formulations. The other is that, while the base oil is a fairly innocuous, purified mineral oil (except for the synthetic ATFs), it has more crap in it for specialized purposes than you could shake a dipstick at.
I doubt if anyone using it for cutting oil knows what he's doing, especially because cutting temperatures are 'way above the intended operating temperatures of the stuff. I also suspect that drugstore mineral oil would work as well -- which is to say, not particularly well at all, compared to the formulations made for the purpose.
-- Ed Huntress
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That's kind of thin viscosity for cuttting, it won't provide much film thickness. Light oil will vaporize at the cutting point, making for not much lubrication.
Kero has a low flashpoint, so if you generate enough hot blue curly chips, or a spark, you might set your lathe on fire.

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Right - but when something vaporizes it absorbs heat.
So maybe the cutting edge isn't in trouble, just the lathe when the hot chips hit a puddle.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net TSRA, Life; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal. NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com /
Tony wrote:

-
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1,1,1-trichloroethane makes ATF look like honey, and there's precious little that has ever equaled it for machining steels.
Harold
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http://www.lpslabs.com/products/CuttingFluids/DA1_2.asp#Product1
Dual Action Plus 1 with trichloroethylene is still available. One small drop on each flute makes a 3/4-10 tap cut steel easily.
jw
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Jim Wilkins wrote: ...

That would be 1,1,2-trichloroethylene, I imagine. 1,1,1- has been banned since '95 (?). How does 1,1,2- compare to 1,1,1- as a cutting fluid?
Bob
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Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Oops - brain fart! He said "trichloroethylene" I read "trichloroethane". Never mind.
Bob
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Is that what was in the older formulation of "tap magic"? The stuff I get now a days smells different and sure doesn't work as good.
Wes
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wrote:

Yes, that's the "magic" component.
I was trained in the shop in the late 50's. They used to dump 1,1,1-trichloroethane in the sumps of the turret lathes by the gallon, along with oil. Imagine that today!
Jim Wilkins mentioned the use of trichloroethylene------which may be in error. That stuff was used in vapor degreasers as I recall-----but then I'm no chemist so I may have it wrong. Jim?
Harold
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wrote:

Yes, that's the "magic" component.
I was trained in the shop in the late 50's. They used to dump 1,1,1-trichloroethane in the sumps of the turret lathes by the gallon, along with oil. Imagine that today!
Jim Wilkins mentioned the use of trichloroethylene------which may be in error. That stuff was used in vapor degreasers as I recall-----but then I'm no chemist so I may have it wrong. Jim?
Harold
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1,1,1-trichloroethane is (was?) the stuff for the vapor degreasers. I had a summer job during college (late 70s) at a chemical factory, the degreaser was more or less a slightly heated dumpster with a foot of that in the bottom and hangars for parts in the top. I didn't use it a lot, but there was simply a ladder to climb up and you reached through the rising vapors to grab parts off the wires holding them. It's amazing any of us have any brain cells left at all.
All of that must have been within OSHA standards at the time. This company was, as far as I could tell, fairly tight about safety compliance.
Trichlorethylene had a short life as an inhaled anesthetic drug. It had several problems, think the main problem was a reaction with the carbon dioxide absorbers in the anesthetic machines. Is it still used as an industrial solvent?
David (anesthesiologist)
Robert Swinney wrote:

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Not according to Wikepedia. Trichloroethane isn't mentioned as a degreaser. I know for sure it wasn't used in the vapor degreaser that we had where I was trained. The smell was totally different.
"There are 3 standard chlorinated degreaser type solvents - trichloroethylene(TCE), methylene chloride and perchloroethylene (perc)."
http://www.degreasingdevices.com/ebook.htm
Harold
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Harold sez:
I was trained in the shop in the late 50's. They used to dump 1,1,1-trichloroethane in the sumps of the turret lathes by the gallon, along with oil. Imagine that today!
Yeah, imagine that - on 1 hand the 1,1,1-trichloroethane will kill me and one the other, kero-tran will set my lathe, and me, on fire. What's mother to do ??
Bob Swinney >G<
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