Lifting Stuff

Well I finally got rid of the 'portable' gantry I built 30 years ago; it ju st got to the point where I'm not physically able to break it down and move
it around very safely any more. I built a couple of smaller widgets that I can put on my little Kubota tractor. The first one is a real kluge and wor ks well enough to move trailers around the meadow but the second, a jib cra ne, is a bit of a stab in the dark and I'd appreciate comments on the desig n. It's not intended to pull a big engine out of a truck or anything like t hat, but it should be capable of lifting the steam engine or boiler out of my boat. https://www.flickr.com/photos/steamboat_ed/sets/72157655170041438
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Your portable gantry could probably lift things much heavier than your Kubota tractor can.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/28/2015 12:19 PM, SteamboatEd Haas wrote: ...

Just guessing, but a first shot approximation...
From the size of the tractor, and giving benefit that the 3-pt is Cat 1, not Cat 0, I'm guesstimating by measuring from the pictures that the arm is 1", 1/8"T tubing and roughly 16" long from the gusset to the lift point. If so, from the following calculator, the bending stress approach 30k psi for a load of 200 lb. That is, of course, for a fully-supported end and has no compensation for the point loading effect of the narrow gusset at the center of the tubing as the load concentrator. One thing I'd suggest would be to add outside plates there so there isn't just the one point in the middle but support at the edges of the tubing instead. And, of course, if the length is longer it's directly proportional if the tubing dimensions are heavier/lighter, they have a effect by the fourth power of the difference between inner/outer dimensions from the geometric moment of inertia of hollow tube.
I didn't try to estimate the lifting moment on the tractor to the rear axle to see how much weight you need minimum to hold it down but the seat is directly over the rear axle so your weight isn't helping much at all in that regards.
That may be enough capacity, altho as another mentioned without any lateral bracing whatever I'd worry quite a lot about it collapsing sideways when it's subjected to some side loading from a bump or a slight tilt from vertical (owing to ground slope, perhaps). I also didn't do any calculation on the compression of the lower extension arm against buckling but I suspect it's better than the above (but that's purely speculative just based on the visuals).
<https://www.easycalculation.com/engineering/mechanical/deflection-hollow-rectangular-beams.php
It is cute, though; I've thought of doing something similar for the utility tractor here altho it's a fair amount larger (~30 hp green).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/29/2015 9:51 AM, dpb wrote: ...

And, of course, that's static loading only; the real kicker on stuff for usage like this is the impact loads that are applied when the tractor hits a bump or the like; those can be several times the static loading and without any springs or other absorbing mechanism, it all has to be taken up by the "beef" of the structure.
An example is the little 3-pt sprayer (55 gal) capacity...it was commercial from Schaben but didn't take but one or two summers over the ground around the feedlots and machinery parking areas before the bounce caused the boom arm folding connectors to crack as well as the 6" wide 1/8"T rolled main support under the tank started to tear. I added a 1-1/2" by 5/32T angle; it still wasn't enough to take more than another couple of years. I've got to beef it up again further this year and will at that point also find some heavy compression springs to set the tank on to relieve some of the impact load from being transmitted directly to the frame.
While you'll never move stuff around with the hook like one covers ground at a steady pace while spraying, it's inevitable you _will_ find a hole or somesuch... :)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/29/2015 10:26 AM, dpb wrote: ...

...
Only picture of the precise design could find quickly...it's small but you can see how they just rolled the platform sheet to make a square edge...that tore beginning between the two uprights holding the valve.
<
http://kentuckyfarmequipment.com/CimarronPhotos/cimarron_cmmh55_sprayer.jpg

Hadn't looked before but current seem to have been modified to use a (looks like perhaps 2-1/2"?) square beam between the two sideplates instead; much beefier...
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I am not sure of the exact size of the pictured tractor, but my rather small (33HP) 4wd John Deere has a Cat 2. A commercial farming buddy of mine looked at it one day and said it was the smallest cat 2 setup he had ever seen, but it was definitely cat 2.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/30/2015 3:17 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

...

Cat 2 is 1-1/8" D lift pin is the definitive way to tell. (Cat 0 -> 5/8" and Cat 1 -> 7/8"). While those _could_ be, perhaps, just doesn't look like it and it would be more than just a little unusual on such a small tractor. That can't be but in the upper teens to low 20s on such a small chassis.
I figured OP would be back and tell me where I was wrong altho I noticed today in rechecking the photos on the first page of his notebook it might be 1-1/4" X 1/8" tubing...if I get a little time this evening I'll maybe try to recheck the guesses...
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/30/2015 5:27 PM, dpb wrote:

...
The JD 955 here is about 30 HP, MFWD (it's so old I don't remember precisely) and is Cat 1. I don't know at what point Deere goes Cat 2 standard; I suppose it's probably possible to order a higher level than standard even on the utilities, or somebody could have swapped out pins or arms, even...
The new "4 Family" run from 43 to 66 HP and are all Cat 1. OTOH, the 5E series starts at about 50 hp up and are Cat 2 so it also depends on the series. But, at 33 hp I think it's unusual for sure.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Interesting. My John Deer 4wd series 1 is a Cat 1. The pins that are used to pick up with are maybe 7/8 and then there is a sleeve. Maybe it is 5/8 plus 1/8" making 7/8 tubing around the pin that is hard. I suspect the tubing is the consumable while the pin is the strength that pulls. I thought it were larger myself. I use 48" wide Power Tiller, 56" wide hog mower, 48" fine cut and 48" front end loader.
The large hooks take the tubing diameter while the pin is the implement size.
Handy tool that is for sure. When the grass gets waist high or more due to constant rain, the Deer just drives through and cuts.
At our age, we use it to tote heavy boxes and materials around the property.
Martin
On 7/30/2015 5:47 PM, dpb wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/30/2015 9:12 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:

...
If you have a sleeve, the implement is then a Cat 0 with the sleeve to adapt to Cat 1; a "true" Cat 1 will have a 7/8" pin. The sleeve is simply an adapter.
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
JD is putting pins that are hard. The shells they sell in the parts room are for expansion of the pin size but take the nicks and sand crap when moving or jerking the load on something you snagged upon. The implements are a mixture of Deer and Frontier and both manuals say Cat 1. So does the website. So I think the sleeve is a consumable part. Long learned that a bunged up scratched pin might not slide through a hole unless ground down. While the Sleeve is swapped with another and away you go.
Martin
On 7/30/2015 11:35 PM, dpb wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/31/2015 9:31 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:

...
Of course the pins are hard; if Frontier or some of the utility stuff is now coming with Cat 0 pins and a bushing that's something I've never seen...have similar setup on the utility here with a box blade, garden tiller, mower, post hole digger, sprayer, etc., etc., and they're all full-size 7/8" pins. It's all at least 10 yr old or older, however, so if somebody has come up with a clever idea, that's a possibility I suppose. I've never had any issue with any of 'em in all that time.
For everything else except the above little utility stuff, everything has quick-hitch attachment anyway; one never need slide a pin thru (and you'd never manage with a 12-row planter or such on full-size equipment, anyway, it's simply too heavy to budge to do so).
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/30/2015 9:12 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:

...

...
While I don't have a handy actual photo of our rig set up for the field, this is more like what we use 3-pt for... :)
<
http://www.cornwallfoodandfarming.net/images/ks2-spring-in-the-field1bb.jpg

--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
That is a taller larger large field unit than mine. A Row tractor.
http://www.deere.com/en_US/products/equipment/tractors/sub_compact_utility_tractors/1_series/1025r_sub_compact/1025r_sub_compact.page?
Here is the stripped down version - missing the front end loader and the heavy mower on the rear. It could have a bucket on the back as well. I have the Heavy powered unit with more Hydraulics so I can add options easily as I have.
I'm under 10 acres so I don't need a big one. Wish I had a 2_Series unit but didn't know at the time. It is much heaver and can really work.
Martin
On 7/31/2015 3:00 PM, dpb wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/31/2015 9:43 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:

We have 7 quarters (a "quarter" is one-fourth a section or 160A) and rent another 6 to farm a total of 13 quarters dryland mostly wheat and milo in far SW KS...that picture's similar to the smaller row crop at about 180 drawbar HP. It's still _very_ small compared to the larger operators with their 20+ corn planters and all, but they're not 3-pt setups.
On acreage we're about average for the area in size but nothing at all compared to some that are 3-4X the size of operation but that's twice the size were when was growing up in the 60s and were probably in top third back then.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
PS I did a few measurements on the 3-point hitch: the lower arms can pass a 1 in. bolt. The upper fixed point uses a 5/8 in. pin. Not sure of whethe r that makes it class 0 or class 1. I can mount a 48 in. mower but to do so I have to position the lower arms inside, rather than outside the mower at tachment points so I have to reverse the mounting pins. No problem lifting it with the hydraulics tho and the PTO has run the mower just fine for a de cade.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 08/10/2015 2:50 AM, SteamboatEd Haas wrote:

That is a non-standard rig as you surmised, per the ISO Standard (730-1, 1994) which contains the definitive definition for consistency, Cat 0 is 5/8" for both lift and link pins while Class 1 is 7/8" lift and 3/4" link pin. The 1" lift point opening doesn't match anything precisely; Cat 2 is 1-1/8" for the lift pin.
The midpoint spacing for the lift arms is 20, 26, and 32", for Cat 0, 1, 2, respectively.
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 07/30/2015 9:12 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:

...
One last note...perhaps for the lighter stuff they have gone to bushings so the can be used with a Cat 0 tractor w/o replacing the pins; again if so I've never noticed. Not sure if the Deere dealer has anything that small in stock to look at; when I'm out next time I'll look around.
Even as a kid I never could understand why Dad never would get a small utility for around the place; as noted, everything here I got with the utility after we came back to the farm after he passed 15 yr or so ago by now. The closest we had back then was an old (1930's vintage Caterpillar 22 (22 drawbar hp) left from the period when granddad had a bunch of them they used with a 3-row pull-type lister for all the row crops that had a stiff-frame bucket. It was too low to load a truck with but could move a little dirt or the like. Of course, being tracked it left a heckuva mess afterwards on the ground. Neighbors at the time had little Ford 8N that was just so cute and handy...later on (early 60s, had an Allis Chalmers D-17 that eventually bought a bucket for -- it was a nice loader tractor altho still just barely enough height to get over the side of a 2T grain truck side. For it he also eventually bought a 7-ft Fordson bush hog, but without a live PTO it was a real trick maneuvering it around close quarters without it driving you instead of vice versa...but that's what (along with a 15-ft solid shaft flail mower) is what he made do with and was what was here when we got back...
I bought the JD 955 (had to go back to the Wichita area to find one; there's just almost no small utility stuff out here and what there is doesn't often come up for resale) and most of the attachments within a year or two after we came back...they happened to have a 6-ft belly finish mower that fit and a 66" tiller (Land Pride) at the time so took them along w/ the tractor. It already had the bucket as it was a tradein from a landscaping outfit; been pretty heavily abused cosmetically but has been solid mechanically for another 12-13 yr so was a good deal. Would like to have been a little larger but we needed to drag a bunch of dirt away from the house to regrade as over the years including the Dust Bowl of the '30s it had gotten to where the house was lower than the yard all around so nothing drained (on those rare occasions when it does actually rain here :) ) so I got the smaller for the clearance under the trees and around "stuff" in the yard to do that. It worked nicely with the tiller and 6-ft box blade to drag to a pile and then use the larger loader on the old JD 4440 to load the truck and haul. For the larger areas around the feedlots and machinery parking areas I also bought a new Rhino 15-ft batwing mower to use around the place and relegate the flail to pasture cleanup. It's much more maneuverable and does a cleaner job and can get close enough to fences and outbuildings that then the belly mower on the 955 can clean up pretty well. I'd like to find a 3-pt sickle sidebar to be able to slide under the cedar windbreaks and along the feedlot fences between posts but they're also very rare out here. I found a new one a few years after the move but it was back eastern part of the state and I was on way back to TN before we'd gotten the house there sold so didn't close the deal and when got back somebody else had taken it...didn't know that Deere had quit making 'em at the time and there were no more other than finding used...
Anyway, I suppose that the difference is both age and that all the stuff here is a little larger on the pins used but I've never seen an actual pin boogered to the point it would be any problem to use so I still think it's a case of simply using a Cat 0 pin from the factory to make things universal w/o having to swap rather than that the sleeves are really considered a "consumable"--altho I'll grant one's a lot more likely to mung one of them up than the pin itself which sorta' makes them that... :)
Anyway, "far too much information" and I needs to go get busy and I'll shut up and go away for the time being...altho I may try to post some actual pictures somewhere; this year things look pretty good as we've finally(!!!) had some decent rains after the previous five years of severe drought--although we're now getting to where we need another for the row crops (milo, primarily with some other feed sorghums) to make a crop they're going to have to have at least one more good rain.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 08/01/2015 9:20 AM, dpb wrote: ...

...
Well, had to go out this AM for spare parts for combine to get ready for milo...hadn't driven down the equipment line for the small stuff before. Anyway, there were 3 or 4 Frontier 3-pt mowers and a blade or two and a few other odds 'n ends. Other than the one smallest mower (48") which did have Cat 0 pins, all the rest were Cat 1 lift pins.
I'm still thinking that the previous surmise is correct based on that sample...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Since I'm a deer guy and never saw a Frontier product until I talked to my sales guy and asked him the price on a xxx and delivery time... The Deer stuff is 1 1/8 heavy steel. While the other parts could be used on multiple tractor grades by changing bolt positions and maybe the Pin spacer.
We once had 3 farms in Indiana but two generations ago they were swindled away from the family. My dad grew up on one of them worked all three and drove a team of 8 Morgans. AKA Hay Burners big time.
My wife has an x300 deer - a robust factory made deer mower. The deers sold at Home Depot and places are made overseas.
She got nose into a drainage ditch mowing and I had to lift up the front and she drove it out without front wheels. Backing up. She had run aground.
Mine weighs more than a car and is handy. Just no use for large row stuff.
The brothers over at the Tree service dealer - have Big Deers! They ship wheels on flatbeds with escorts! Then there is the Industrial Deer across town that has the big digging machines...
The Farm tractor Deer dealer is in the next large town going North or another (same owner) West about 40-50 miles away.
This is a Lumber / lumber product region. Power Poles and all.
Martin
On 8/1/2015 11:56 AM, dpb wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

  • - the site's newest thread. Posted in

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.