Lincoln SA-200 Starter: repair or replace?

That's the worst commutator I've ever seen! A no-hoper, the bar ends have separated from the insulation. In days of old, when time was cheap and mica was the insulation, that would be screwed together with a big nut and chevron washers so it could be taken apart, bad bars replaced, bad mica discs replaced and the works resoldered. Today, the whole assembly is shot in place with plastic. No disassembly possible. The only thing that can be done these days is to resurface the bars and that one's well beyond any help that would give. New one time.

For those still undercutting, this is not needed with this type of assembly, actually, it's undesirable. Junk collects in the slots and shorts the bars out. When mica ruled, you had to do that to keep the mica from whacking the brushes and breaking them as the surface wore down. With today's plastics, the insulation is softer than the brushes and undercutting slots is not needed. Wears flush along with the bars. Anything more than just scraping burrs off from turning will give trouble.

Rebuilts vary from vendor to vendor. Some joints just replace the brushes, sand the commutator, maybe replace bushings if they look like they need it and shoot a coat of paint over the works, pits and all. They depend on folks dumping the vehicle soon after to avoid excessive returns. Others will replace other parts as needed and you end up with something approaching an OEM new part. NAPA stuff should be good. Price and warranty is an indicator. I like to disassemble rebuilts and relube with my choice of grease. Also lets me check out the windings. Had one where the field strapping was just rattling around in there with brown wrapping paper for insulation. Only the packing string they used for tying things together kept it from total meltdown.

Stan

Reply to
stans4
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It appears to me that most of the commutator segments are ok, and the couple that look bad are the ones under the brushes when the motor finally refused to turn and were likely cooked by an idiot holding the starter button down when the motor wasn't turning. I don't think it's in as bad shape as it looks on the surface.

It will cost Iggy nothing but an hour taking it apart and playing on his lathe to give it a try.

Reply to
Pete C.

That's good to know, IF we are restoring today's armatures.

jsw

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

Napa has a rebuilt one for $45. It will work for me. I may even get it tonight!

i
Reply to
Ignoramus3470

No, 5 ;-) See a lot of starters on a daily basis and that one is dead. If you will try a rebuild of that starter you will minimum need a new rotor and a new set of brushes for it.

For that price you might or might not be able to buy the parts I listed. What about the bearings/bushings, gears and, and......

I know for sure what I would go for :-)

PS If you are able to get the old one working by Friday, say 10 starts I will be amazed.

Reply to
Uffe Bærentsen

So you would also get that rebuild at Napa, right?

Reply to
Ignoramus3470

Absolutely. Good price, honorable vendor, immediate access. What's to think about. Just Do It!

-- You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness.? -- Ronald Reagan

Reply to
Larry Jaques

Yep. I might even get the starter today, and work on the welder this weekend!

My next question is the carb. Since fuel was so gummed up in the bowl, it is probably gummed up in the carb? SShould I just take it off and clean?

What sort of solvent works best for this?

i
Reply to
Ignoramus3470

At $45, just go for it. If they don't want the old "core" give it a shot at turning and rebuilding for the experience and if it works you have a backup.

Reply to
Pete C.

delelse

Carb cleaner, see what NAPA has. Used to have a gallon can for sale with solvent in the bottom, a water seal on top and a basket you could stick parts in to soak. Not the same stuff as you get in a spray can, had really nice stuff like cresylic acid in it. Probably EPA'd to death these days. Did the job, though. Had to make sure only metal went into the basket, will eat gaskets and rubber parts. Once boiled out with that stuff, you had to clean off the cleaner and blow dry with an air hose. Engines didn't like the mix of cleaner and water if you left it in the passages. May not be a whole lot of call for it in the last couple of decades since everyone has gone to fuel injection. Ditto for carb rebuild kits, which you probably will also need for gaskets and maybe needle and seat.

You might try a can or two of the aeresol cleaner, it's getting spendy these days, too. I've had floats stuck to the bottom of the bowl when they'd been sitting long enough, breaking them free got the engines running but the carbs still needed cleaning because of the gum left.

Stan

Reply to
stans4

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If the reman company is still accepting cores for the MT10, yes, yours still has gore value enless the drive end housing is damaged.

Reply to
clare

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You just bought a $19 solenoid, right?? Put it on the $62 starter and you have a $81 starter. If you buy the $110 starter, you have $129 invested. Do the math.

You are going to start this thing how often????

Reply to
clare

If you look at the picture you'd need to be a magician to fix that one withe crocus cloth, or even a lathe!!!

Reply to
clare

I'd say you have a fighting chance. Does the engine have a crank nut on the front pulley?? Looks like the starter may have been something less than intermittent for some time. If it got too hard to start with the crank and they figured it was too old to bother fixing, it might still be OK. Might kill mosquitos for a mile or so, too.

Reply to
clare

"back in the day" undercutting comms was de rigeur on generators, but totally verbotten on starters. Starter brushed have copper in them, not just carbon, and the copper/carbon dust would pack the slots, shorting the armature in short order. The hard copper/carbon brushes easilly kept the mica in check.

On generators, the soft carbon brushes would bounce off the mica, burning the commutator if not properly undercut. Tool if chaice was a hacksaw plade with the set filed off.

I agree. Lots of "clean and paint" rebuilds available. A PROPER rebuild has a new or totally reconditioned armature and new field coils, new brushes and brush springs, and a new drive - as well as a new or fully rebuilt solenoid.

Quite a few "rebuilt" starters on the market today are actually BRAND NEW replacements made in a Chinese sweat-shop. They generally do not require a core, and no care deposit is applicable.

Reply to
clare

meddelelse

Berryman's B-9 ChemDip carb cleaner is all you'll ever need (unless the greenies futzed it up by changing the nastyass chemicals in it) It comes with a dip basket. DO NOT forget and leave a carb in it overnight. It works too well.

B-9 for the inside, B-12 for the outside. Can't go wrong.

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1 gal
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5 gal
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carb linkage cleaner Berryman puts out the very best stuff I ever used in my years as a mechanic.

Anything which -can- now be sold in the Republik of Kalifornia is worthless. Y'know, the cans with contents marked "environmentally responsible". The greenies got rid of methylene chloride which is the best carb varnish remover of all time.

-- You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We will preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on Earth, or we will sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness.? -- Ronald Reagan

Reply to
Larry Jaques

There are 3 or 4 places in town that would likely have a good used one on the shelf for $15 or $20 here, as well as at least 4 rebuilders that would likely have a couple already on the shelf - that I know were rebuilt properly. That said, my local NAPA is only less than a mile away and I drive past it twice a day - so unless I was headed past one of the other places in my normal daily driving (or at least close) I'd likely nab the one from NAPA. (assuming they have it in stock - and the warehouse is only about 15 miles away, so if it's in the warehouse I can generally have it (delivered) in less than 2 hours) I'm within 1/4 mile of one of the better rebuilders at least twice a day too.

Reply to
clare

meddelelse

Sea Foam.

If that doesn't work, start looking for a "jiffy kit" and a can of "carb dip"

Reply to
clare

Once a machine dies and sits around for a while, parts slowly disappear.

John

Reply to
John

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>>>>>>

Carb cleaner in a spray can.

John

Reply to
John

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