Lincoln/Miller again or Ford/Chevvy ?

Tempted by the ads I'm looking at (relatively) small engine powered
welder/generators again.
They SEEM to be coming down in price and I'm GUESSING that there are
surplus units due to production continuance after sales slowdown....
Seasonal ice storms and power interruptions are helping me to overcome
the "domestic inertia", so as long as it has enough 12/240 to bring
the furnace fan, fridge and lights back on that will be fine.
To the WELDING side of it I have to admit that a 180 Amp machine would
probably be OK for most of what I have done so far, but then there's
the old features/price escalator ride and the curve isn't all that
steep, especially moving from say 225 A to 250 and then on up to 300.
Here's the current dilemma;
Lincoln machines above 225 Amp are DC only, how much does this
matter ?
Not at all if I don't use it - and if I don't have it, I can't - a
self fulfilling whatsit.
Miller boast 'separate" generator and welder on the Trailblazer 302 -
OK, same shaft, two sets of winding, how much is this "worth" in the
compare & contrast equation ?
I guess I see running a plasma cutter and air compressor off the 240
at the same time and when doing that it would be VERY UNLIKELY that I
would be running weld output at the same time.
In domestic discussions around noise level I have been challenged with
the Guardian claims of 66 dba for their standby gens.
So far my only defense is that air cooled Vee-Twins of comparable
displacement driving similar sized alternators probably make
comparable sound level. I can't find good A/B sound levels for
Lincoln and Miller, but the Guardian number doesn't state the distance
at which the 66 dba was measured, so neither of us have "good numbers"
on sound level. B'sides, we can put up with some noise if the
alternative is cold and dark, right ?
It is also unlikely that I would want to actually weld or do any other
metal working during a significant power cut, so simultaneous
capability is less important to me than flexibility.
PLEASE don't bog this down with comparisons of red vs blue 500+ amp
diesel pipeline rigs, I'm interested at the 10 KVA and 300Amp level
machine.
Reply to
RegB
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I have had my Miller Bobcat 225 with the old Onan 16hp for a number of years. I do a lot more power generation than welding.
You seem to be seeking a 10KW generator that can weld OR generate power. Either Bobcat will do what you want. The Miller web site shows about $1000 between the 225 and the 302. For what you want to do, the 225 amp machine (either Lincoln or Miller) is plenty.
You will never run a 225 amp machine at more than about 160 amps. Remember that all of these units are not designed to be rebuilt. They are designed to be replaced around 3000 hours in commercial service and be lightweight units, all gas powered at 3600 rpm. A 500 pound unit that easily fits in a pickup or a pair of them in a trailer.
When you move up to a 4 cylinder diesel engine power, those motors are designed to be overhauled and typically run at 1800 rpm. They are very heavy and expensive as well as being mostly a welder with a little aux power.
Tom
Reply to
Tom Kendrick
Machines vary. My Lincoln SA200 is set to run at 1450 rpm, which equates to long engine life. And yes, the little Continentals can be rebuilt with NAPA parts. Only 1750 watts on the power side, probably 225 amps on the high side of the welder, but I wouldn't want to do it all day long. No 220 at all. Purrs and burns 7018 1/8" rod and 6010 all day long, though. Just have to get a muffler on that straight pipe some day.
Steve
Reply to
SteveB
SteveB wrote in message ...
I had one of those until a friend wanted it more than I did. If I recall the 115 volt outlet was dc. I think my 15 amp grinder worked better on it than the utility but couldn't be sure. You sure wouldn't want to fuel it as a generator for blackouts of the grid. It is a generator which I figure means that it makes a continuos dc current where the lighter newer things probably make ac and convert it into dc and perhaps the current isn't as steady on a fraction of a second examination.
As far as the original post for steel if you have dc why use ac? at least for 6010 or 7018.
Reply to
fran...123
Personally I'd take a long look at the Miller Legend. It's the only small generator/welder that doesn't run at 3600 rpm to weld at generate at least not all the time it does rev up to that speed for max welding power but that's a rare need. The generating power (yes it's less than a Bobcat will put out) at 1800 is a huge difference in life and noise especially when using for standby power.
Reply to
Wayne Cook
Thanks all who replied. I did look at the Legend ...and continue to do so. I think it has only about 5 KW of aux power, which would be a problem for a 1/2 inch plasma machine (and compressor). I'm still a bit hung up on the OUTRAGEOUS premium they get for just swapping in a small diesel on the Bobcat and Trailblazer. Figure at discount house prices the Kohler 23 HP gas engine accounts for about 1/2 the price of these machines (around $1800) and the only REAL difference between the gas and diesel versions is the engine, but the whole rig is about 2X, (~$7200) which means they're getting 3X for the diesel engine half of it vs a gas engine half. Not beating on Miller disproportionately, Lincoln prices are comparable - no real competition I guess.
BTW, if the gas versions are "throwaway" I would SERIOUSLY consider taking one with a burned out engine half and sticking it on the back of my tractor with a 7:1 step up gear as used on many PTO generators. For low/medium power I could put the tractor's PTO gear in 1,000 RPM and reduce the revs to 54% of that, around 1300, which is not a loud speed for a 4 cylinder water cooled diesel engine. I just have to decide on a purchase project vs a build project - and find the scrap materials opportunity for the build project.
Reply to
RegB
Look at the price differences in the bare engines, and you'll see that those markups are not out of line. Small diesels are pricy... --Glenn Lyford
Reply to
glyford
Thanks all who replied. I did look at the Legend ...and continue to do so. I think it has only about 5 KW of aux power, which would be a problem for a 1/2 inch plasma machine (and compressor). I'm still a bit hung up on the OUTRAGEOUS premium they get for just swapping in a small diesel on the Bobcat and Trailblazer. Figure at discount house prices the Kohler 23 HP gas engine accounts for about 1/2 the price of these machines (around $1800) and the only REAL difference between the gas and diesel versions is the engine, but the whole rig is about 2X, (~$7200) which means they're getting 3X for the diesel engine half of it vs a gas engine half. Not beating on Miller disproportionately, Lincoln prices are comparable - no real competition I guess.
BTW, if the gas versions are "throwaway" I would SERIOUSLY consider taking one with a burned out engine half and sticking it on the back of my tractor with a 7:1 step up gear as used on many PTO generators. For low/medium power I could put the tractor's PTO gear in 1,000 RPM and reduce the revs to 54% of that, around 1300, which is not a loud speed for a 4 cylinder water cooled diesel engine. I just have to decide on a purchase project vs a build project - and find the scrap materials opportunity for the build project.
reply:
Having the time and money at the same time can be a bitch.
Reply to
SteveB
5KW may be enough if you don't mind doing some power management by adding additional tank capacity to the compressor and not running it when the plasma is on.
Reply to
Pete C.
Pun intended?
Reply to
Bob La Londe
Yeah, probably. Either that or a Freudian split.
Reply to
RegB

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