Locate leak in FAU

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 21:37:41 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Joe Lauton quickly quoth:

I'm no HVAC guy and I don't play one on the Internet, but it sounds like you have a leak in your heat exchanger. How old is your unit and what efficiency does it run? When I moved into this new (1965 vintage) house in Oregon, I removed the gawdawful baseboard heaters and installed a Carrier Infinity, a 96% efficient unit. Older units were lucky to get 80% efficiency, so these new units pay for themselves fairly quickly.

If you have black shingles and clear, sunny skies, that might not be too far off normal for attic temps.

I sure understand those two sentiments.

--- Chaos, panic, and disorder--my work here is done.

"Joe Lauton" (clip) I know a $150 per month gas heating bill is nothing to most of you -

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Consider installing a tankless water heater if you don't already have one.

Can you plug or greatly restrict the main air outlets and then turn on the fan? If so, you can spray a solution of blue Dawn dishwashing detergent and water on every joint you can see.

It sounds to me like you need to turn down your thermostat. 70F would have everyone in my house running around in T-shirts and shorts and setting up fans.

Grant

I don't know where your at, but here in Florida the utilities will do a, I would call it a pressure check, to check your home for leaks and check your ductwork. Its free and your not locked into a contractor if they find something wrong. gary Deltona, Fl

=EF=BF=BDI maintain a

Insulate Insulate Insulate.

How about having a foot on insulation in the attic to prevent the heat source from heating the attic so much. And do a pressure check of the duct system.

Bob AZ

The missing element is when did you measure the 100 F. What is it at night ? Early - pre sunrise ? (max cooling from roof)...

If the attic isn't ventilated the day heat on a mixed much less black (can be brown or green ....) and the heat comes in.

You don't say where you are - but in the south attic turbines are used to draw hot air out.

You might be leaking out of the hot ceilings. Or the wall joints.

My fireplace heats my attic - but not by to much. When I leave in the early a.m. or come back - there is frost on our roof. I think frost like on the grass indicates mine is working. Or I'm cooling what would be hot.

So insulation sounds like what you need. Maybe the electric plugs are tunnels upwards.

You can mist air freshener across the face of a wall plug. (smoke test).

Mart> How does one locate a leak in a forced air heating/ac residential

Well, there are a couple things to try. Is that attic temp the same day and night? If so, you must be right. If not, then this may be solar heat coming through the roof, not hot air leaking out of the ducts. The amount of heat that a roof can capture is totally awesome. I visually

Depending on what your insulation is in the attic, it may or may not be a fire hazard. You need to be sure the furnace blower is on when looking for leaks, so you want to flip the fan switch to "ON", not "auto" when you search. A piece off a broken audio cassette tape might be the thinnest ribbon you will ever find. Stick a couple inch piece to a little stick and you have a very sensitive draft detector. Is the hot air duct insulated? (It can have insulation on the inside of the duct, too.) If not, there's a big energy loss, too. (When the furnace is on, a duct with inside insulation should not get hot, but might get slightly warm after a long run of the furnace. If it is too hot to put your hand on, it SURE isn't insulated. You can buy specific insulation for this application at the home depot-type outfit.)

Jon

Thanks for all the help from everyone - as usual.

The CRS is getting to me.

It was about 50 deg this morning and the attic temp was normal - no more than 70 degF. Stupid me. I have a black roof and as has been said it really catches the heat! One MUST check in the morning.

I'm located slightly inland near Los Angeles, CA. Can't assume SW gives that away. 60s during the day and 40s at night are typical winter temps. 3.5" or R13??? insulation was standard. May be 6 inches now.

Hey, put a fan and some registers in there, and you can heat the place all day with the attic heat practically for free! That will drive down your heating bill for sure!

Of course, in the summer, you want to get all that heat out of there, or it radiates down so bad you can actually feel the heat radiation on your face. (Used to have a place like that!)

Jon

Otherwise known as CRAFT disease - Can't Remember A F*****g Thing Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Virtually no heating is taking place during the day. There would be no significant saving.

I have a horizontal 36" dia whole house fan (in a bathroom -grin) and three large gable openings for max ventilation. Only use the AC about

10 days a year. This also really helps freshen things in 30 seconds or less - no matter what you let loose...

Joe,

I'm in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada and my combined electric/gas utility bill is $144.00/month! And it's -20 F outside right now!!

Our building code requires R40 insulation in the attic and R20 insulation in the walls with 1 square foot of ventilation per 300 square feet of roof area. The utility company has determined that the single biggest return on investment is to upgrade the attic insulation before any other remedial measures (like wall insulation, sealing of joints, electrical outlets, windows, etc.)

All the suggestions given here are good, but in my humble opinion you'd realize your biggest savings by upgrading your attic insulation and ensuring adequate ventilation. It will lower both your heating and cooling costs. The next step would be to reduce exfiltration of heated or cooled air from the building envelope by sealing around fixtures, windows, doors, etcetera. As has been said here, many utility companies provide a free "leakage test" for your home that shows where the air is escaping (or infiltrating).

My best advice is to sell everything, pack up your toys and move to Canada where you'll enjoy free, universal health care, Eskimo pie and $6.00 a gallon gasoline... uhhhhh... forget what I said about the gasoline!

Cheers.

My electric bill is another $60 per month. This is of course a large house with four bathrooms and four people living here most of the time.

You probably have triple pane windows where all of mine are single layer with plenty of small leaks etc. You use a mud room etc.

Since this area is zoned for condos there is zero building sales value to my single family residence. It will be demolished when sold to the Asians. More attic ventilation and double pane glass would no doubt do a lot - but would not be cost effective IMHO. I have eliminated more than twenty recessed lights - that required free air circulation. Pure poison.

What - an Imperial Gallon ?!! not Liters ?!!!!

Been there - bought a quart of oil and it was a large quart :-) but I knew already -

Martin

Mart> Joe,

Yeah... dual pane windows with low E coating and argon gas are the code minimum but I upgraded to triple pane with low E & argon a few years ago. It's no doubt that our standards have to be stricter, but you might be surprised to know that my local building code is similar to many areas of the USA. I'm located only 75 miles from the Canada/US border, due north of North Dakota. Our weather here is milder than some regions of the US.

I can see why you'd like to keep your improvement costs to a minimum.

I didn't wanna cause a stampede for the border by saying I pay $1.09 for gasoline... 'cuz I know some of my mono-tooth, trailer park, corn-fed, inbred, southern hillbilly cousins wudn't have known I wuz talk'n met-trick!!!

And it ain't liter... it's litre!!! As in metre, cheatre, heatre!*&%# Mon dieu...tabernac... sacre bleu!

(wink)

I have a bunch of leaky thermopane windows made in 1975. I can see a variety of crud on the interior faces of the glass. I have had a dream to tear them apart, pull out the old seal, clean the glass, re-seal them and fill with argon. (Hey, I have a TIG welder, so I already HAVE the argon, regulator, flowmeter etc.

Anyone ever done this? (Just kind of wondering what level of insanity this is, just garden variety, or should I be locked up right away?) Our heating bills are getting more and more objectionable. And, there's NO attic, we have cathedral ceilings everywhere. I have thought of strapping insulation batts against the cathedral ceiling above the bathrooms, hallways, etc. where they are hidden. There IS a chunk of insulation up in the ceiling, might even be 6" of fiberglass.

Jon

Well, then to make use of that heat, you'd have to store it for the night, probably in a tank of water. That suddenly gets a lot more complicated than a fan and louvers. :(

OK, so there's no worry on that side. We have 2 ~3 ton AC units that run flat out all day every day during the summer. Well, that's in St. Louis, and it gets hot and sticky here.

My last place had a traditional attic, and you could come in in the evening, turn your face upward and it was almost like turning your face up toward the sun! You could literally feel the thermal radiation from the roof on your cheeks and forehead! I added 6" of loose-fill insulation to the ~6" of fiberglass and powered rooftop ventilators, and it didn't seem to do much good.

This place doesn't seem to get that much heat through the roof/ceiling for some reason, at least you can't feel it on your face. I don't know why. And, the cathedral ceilings make it very hard to do ANYTHING to change the situation.

Jon

What kind of power bill? Say about $600-800 or more?

I installed a couple of double pane for comfort - and it worked. So these things do not last forever? Is this a common problem - even today?

(Hey, I have