Machinery's Handbook & the Italian Economy

strange question--
i've moved to italy, opened up a welding/machine shop.
the lack of (practical) technical information out here
is a crying shame. the "how-to"-type books i grew up with
in the U.S. libraries are non-existant. knowledge
is jealously with-held. i have no idea why.
no wonder the country is in shambles.
(maybe i'll get into publishing? :)
i took on an apprentice -- smart kid,
learning fast & i'd like to get him a Machinery's Handbook..
he has his books from techcollege -- none published after
1800 (A.D.), however. most of which are WAY too
theoretical to be of any use in a machine shop. (mine, at least)
speed/feed charts are for bone, wood, and stone tools.
Anyone know if the Machinery's Handbook
(any edition) has been translated into Italian?
if so, where can i order?
(I've checked out the Industrial Press website and
no mention of translated versions; no prompt email
replies from them either)
either that or i have to "learn 'em" to read english.
thanks all
-tony
Reply to
tony
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...> he has his books from techcollege -- none published after
seriously? christ....
...> > either that or i have to "learn 'em" to read english.
if you have one, get parts of it translated locally, s/b cheap enough. then buy some Eng-Italian dictionaries and some time later, problems solved & you may qualify for some award. good luck, --Loren
Reply to
Loren Coe
Congratulations! In a few time you understood everything about Italy and technology. (is there a technology in Italy? I think not...no more at least. It was long time from Pacinotti, Ferraris, Marconi and Fermi...)
Well, I am an italian, I know the sad situation here, then I have my library full of english (and american) books :-))
I can say you:
1) choose only apprentice knowing english language
2) give a look to "edizioni Hoepli", Milano. I suggest you to request a catalogue of their publications. I have one and I saw that there are at least a tenth of books about welding.
3) I dont know where you live: usually, cities hosting universities, have good bookshops: maybe you can find something.
this is what I did :-)) (if I wanted to learn to use my lathe...)
Just a note: if you guys sometime cry for any reason, try to think to us poor italians: maybe YOUR problem is to find a strange chuck for an obsolete Myford. But OUR problem is to find EN 19 steel :-)) (and this is because I order it from UK.....)
regards and good luck ale
Reply to
ale
I recently saw a video of an Italian production machine for the brush industry. I figure that the Italians kidnapped some German engineers and fed them LSD for weeks and then tortured them into designing the machine.
Reply to
Tom Gardner
The Museum of Science and Technology (Museo Nazionale della Scienza e della Tecnologia, Via S. Vittore 21 - 20123 Milano) is well worth a visit if you're near Milan.
The lack of *range* of books is something I've noticed, just from kicking around book fairs at random in France, Greece and even Bulgaria (on their Literacy Day, no less). There's just not enough market for many of them to be published in the lesser-used languages. I think we're very lucky to have been born (or become) English speakers..
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
Reply to
Spehro Pefhany
---------- I,m not Italian, but they do make the best high speed candy wrapping machines, printing presses and don't forget the Nardini lathes. my 2 cents However you do have to use spaghetti wrenches (metric) on them. Don Warner
Reply to
Donald
They do have some interesting engineering , but it's not a good idea to generalize about Italian technology, even that which is fairly recent. They invented and developed the CMM into a practical machine, and Mandelli's FMS (flexible manufacturing system) was clearly the world leader only 15 years ago. They aren't doing bad in F1, either...
They have the engineers and the capability. They're just running with their legs tied together, thanks to an atrocious set of government policies and a machine tool industry that looks a bit like that of the US back in the '60s: lots of small companies that don't have the resources for research and development.
Ed Huntress
Reply to
Ed Huntress
So that explains my last Ducati
Reply to
Beecrofter
Ale, Don't be so hard on your countrymen. I have fond memories of a 906 Paso Ducati motorcycle with desmodromic valve gear. All the horror stories I'd heard about it before I bought the bike were simply untrue. Yes, it was a bitch to adjust, but once adjusted was dead reliable and the engine would likely have destroyed itself before you could get the valves to float at high rpm. A beautiful piece of engineering in my opinion and Italians have nothing to be ashamed of. They named the bike after Renzo Pasolini, one of your best motorcycle racers. Thought that was a nice touch, too. Also had a '75 Moto Guzzi that was built to industrial strength and solid as a rock.
Garrett Fulton
Reply to
Garrett Fulton
LOL I laugh because with Ducati motorbikes there is no "half way". Love it or hate it :-))
I dont' know them. I can say that there are little "islands of excellence" (Ferrari, Beretta...LOL maybe Beretta is a wrong example :-)), Fincantieri.) but they are less and more less.
Lets' say: I'm not interested in "made in Italy" for fashion, shoes and dresses. I would like a "made in Italy" for airplanes, lathes and ships.
regards ale
Reply to
ale
Sure, sure, sure! I am happy that you talk about that museum. Visiting it, everyone can see the decadence of italian craftmanship from last century to today.
You're absolutely right (maybe someone is just "English reader :-)) )
regards ale
Reply to
ale
i have traveled to the UK and Italy to work, about weeks in Italy in about 1978. once over the jet lag (which required a _no_wine_ diet for 2days) it became very interesting and fun. this thread seems to comport with my take on the country/people since this visit.
they are inventers, always have been, some guy named Leonardo was supposed to be, anyway. blame either the government or the people for any losses of manufacturing prowess, that is too far removed for me to have an opinion. i remember it being a country of HUGE contrasts.
take a drive out of Torino and see beautiful country, pass an old woman carrying about 1.5 bushels of sticks on her back, then a row of nice slate roof weekend cottages, next a farm house with the stable under the living area.
they, of all people, know how to cook and eat, every single day, every single person. food seems to be the great, "equalizer", and part of a life-style that could explain why other countries may be more advanced in some ways. siesta time, 2hr lunches are still common if not the norm, as are 10pm suppers. i cannot but envy these fine folks. --Loren (Irish, Scotch, French, Dutch)
Reply to
Loren Coe
Having been to Italy many, many times and having dated a lovely Italian woman for many years, I will second the comment that the Italians have a zest for life and a quality of life, at all social levels, that far exceeds what we have here.
Regards,
Marv (Now where did I put that recipe for Fegato alla Venetiano?)
Loren Coe wrote:
Reply to
Marv Soloff
That's ok, but the topic was "technical literature in italian language" (Or am I making a mistake?)
I have a M. Sc. degree in electronics: I was forced to learn english because it simply doesn't exist a technical literature in italian language.
I took good lunches during my college years (!)...but if I wanted to learn something, I had to study on english (american) books.
And presently, if I want to learn something about metalworking, I have to buy books in english (and to visit RCM of course!)
regards ale
Reply to
ale
Yup, a lot less of the bad stuff and alot more of what life should be about.
.. or their pungent pasta "Putanesca".
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
Reply to
Spehro Pefhany
The new Ducks have advanced a bit in the past 30 years, the older 860 gts was a bit of a wonder.
Reply to
Beecrofter
i dunno, the subject includes, "...the Italian Economy"
you seem to have answered the OP's question, and it is surprising to me. not that the MH is not translated, but hardly any(?!) technical or text books. that has to be some legacy from when the King's English was considered a requirement for almost anyone above floor sweeper.
i think it is only in the past couple of decades that many folks have stopped apologizing for _not_ speaking it. the otherside of it is that almost _any_ decent non-English document is translated, so you have an advantage there.
--Loren (btw, i was there six weeks, working on Casa De Spainia-sp? computers for Ampex & the Telex office of the UK)
Reply to
Loren Coe
Yet a recent poll showed that a significant number of Italians believe that Jewish Italians are not really citizens, or Italians.
Interesting......
Gunner
"The Democratic Party is the party of this popular corruption. The heart of the Democratic Party and its activist core is made up of government unions, government dependent professions (teachers, social workers, civil servants); special interest and special benefits groups (abortion rights, is a good example) that feed off the government trough; and ethnic constituencies, African Americans being the most prominent, who are disproportionately invested in government jobs and in programs that government provides.
" The Democratic Party credo is 'Take as much of the people's money as politically feasible, and use that money to buy as many of the people's votes as possible'. Tax cuts are a threat to this Democratic agenda. Consequently, Democrats loathe and despise them." -Semi-reformed Leftist David Horowitz
Reply to
Gunner
I'll second that. The Ducati factory in Bologna designed and built a GP bike in one year which successfully competed in MotoGP this year racing against the Japanese factories which had spent years and zillions of yen developing their motorcycles.
Fred
Reply to
ff
And lo, it came about, that on Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:44:39 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking , snipped-for-privacy@peltri.it (ale) was inspired to utter:
On a complete tangent, and probably wrong, but I wonder if the lack of technical references might have something to do with a general disdain for the Trades in European culture. In the States there has been a sense of "might as well, I want this 'now' and can't wait for the Proper Craftsman to get here.", not to mention "sometimes you just have to do it yourself, because there's no body around to hire the job done, even if you could afford to do so, anyway." going way back. That whole Protestant Work ethic/"Yankee" tinkerer, "its not who your people were, but what you do which counts" attitude. (I just got back from a visit with my Dad. He uses family stories to make this point. Great grandpa ran water and electric into his house, while his "smarter" and more established brothers in law tapped into his lines to bring water to the Barn yard. But he got them back when he signed them up for the Electric Telephone so the Bell company would run the line the ten miles out to his house.)
Anyway, I remember the surprise when we Americans would just up and "do it ourselves" rather than call the plumber, mason, etc. as was "proper".
tschus pyotr
Reply to
pyotr filipivich

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