Machinery's Handbook & the Italian Economy

I think so and I agree with you. The strange thing is that Americans and Europeans have the same roots :-)) Maybe USA skies push the people to DIY, European skies push people to "ask someone for it" (just kidding of course).

But what you say is true. Maybe just a part of the problem, but it is a true part.

regards ale

if anyone (Ale) is interested, i managed to find _TWO_ "techincal" books in italian from Hoepli publishing. i couldn't put the order in fast enough. -- though the pessimist in me expects them to end up being "THEORY of lathe construction" books and have more graphs than pictures.

the problem out here, if i've got it figured right, is that knowledge is TOO coveted.

yes, the italians have some strong points and a few technical advantages over some other countries -- Danielli, here in italy, makes (hands down) the best steel mill and furnaces in the world.. even though the english/americans have been at it forever. -- but specific examples like this one are applicable to just about any nation such as Germany, England, U.S., etc

BUT, at least in italy's case, the difference is 'mafia money'

-- before anyone gets bent out of shape, allow me to explain. anything that the goverment has _direct_ interest in (motorcycles, race cars.. even soccer teams) get money DUMPED into it overnight. (In the US's case this only happens with the Defense budget :)

You need a top-of-the-line tennis racket? well, if someone with clout in the italian congress/parliment also needs a good tennis racket, you can be sure that MILLIONS of euros will be funneled in from other (more important) projects the next day... and Mr.ParlimentMan will be playing tennis by week's end.

don't mean to sound bitter.. but i can only handle paying

25euros (~$30) for a 10mm HSS endmill once (ok, twice) before i start looking elsewhere.

this is _THE_ DIY country. you've been a plumber for 30 years and need to build an addition to the house? how hard can it be? anyone who's been to italy: notice how many of the 'newer' houses were cracked/crumbling because of poorly built homese in earthquake prone areas? (not to mention the fact that the concrete firm probably screwed him over and gave him wet sand for the same price as concrete)

the difference between italian DIY and U.S. DIY is that americans, at least for the most part, know their limits.

ask an american machinist "DAMN, how did you turn that internal left hand acme thread?" and 9 time outta 10 you'll have someone talking your ear off. ask an italian machinist the same question and 9 times outta 10 he'll give you a cocky attitude, fearing that you are threatening his livelihood.

when i first opened up shop i started giving welding lessons on the weekends... FREE. (for publicity) even put in my own consumables. alot of locals gave me shit: "If you teach them to weld, they won't come to you when they need it done, you're so stupid"

turns out not ONE of those folks that came to learn to weld don't stop by here with other work to be done, if not welding work at that. -- any business i am 'losing' usually involves manure covered trailers that need patching... work i'm happy to have lost!

all-in-all this is a great country to _live_ in working here, however, is a test of patience. sorry so long-winded, folks,

-tony

Ale -- where in italy are you?

--just curious.. how many times has it happened to you that you go into a store (any store) and it feels like the owner is doing you a favor by taking your money and selling you his product?

No offense to anyone out there. If you had to pick people to colonize a new place (island, contentiet, planet) who would you pick, the DIY independent type people or the someone-else-can-do-it type people? North America, South America and Australia were colonized by Europeans, perhaps most of the DIY genes left the pool to come to the New World. Ken

And lo, it came about, that on Sun, 16 Nov 2003 14:05:05 GMT in rec.crafts.metalworking , Ken Vale was inspired to utter:

As has been pointed out in any number of forums, we were kicked out, fled, or just got tired of this crap in the Respectable Country. There we were always going to be held back by the Establishment, in the States it was "root hog, or die." and we could do whatever - be it get "rich" or jut be left alone.

Well, ya'll make the best swimming pool tile. There are only two problems with it. One is that I can't read the boxes. And the other is when I set them vertically the 12X12's , 12X6's , and the 6X6's aren't the same size. Getting the grout joints to line up is next to impossible when 12X12 = 12.25" , 12X6= 12" ,and 2-6X6= 11.75". It gets down right scary when there is a pattern and one wall is 2.5' high and 40' long. On a floor it wouldn't be as hard cause you can make the grout joints different , but stacking them means that you need 3 different sized spacers. Must be the itty bitty counting of the tape measure problem over there also.

Veneto. Between Padova and Venice.

Everytime :-) And this is the reason because I order from Brownells - I am quite a gun nut - McMaster-Carr, from Chronos Ltd (UK) and from Baxmeier (Germany). It is long time I am tired of italian shop owners. I already said it: you have a perfect knowledge of italy and italians.

regards ale

Well, it depends on a lot of factors. Now...If I wanted to ensure that I, and, my offspring, had jobs for life, I would get rid of the former group. Getting rid of the DIY folks would make sure my skills were in demand. Now...if I won the lottery, and was independently wealthy, perhaps the former group. Actually, that idea came up in one of the later volumes of the (increasingly inaccurately named) trilogy, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Doug Adams. Seems that Our Heroes end up on a fleet of spaceships populated by total idiots. They are all middle level managers, etc, and as it turns out, have been tricked onto the ships by a society that was trying to "improve" itself. That way, I would know that while I COULD do the work myself, if I hired someone, I could be pretty sure that they were able to do an excellent job of it. Luckily, I don't have to make that decision, especially since in the former case, Adams postulated that the society that had "rid" it self of the drones soon came crashing down because there were no folks to keep the bureaucracy going, deal with the fiddly bits of keeping life going and do their nails. I suspect I would not exile anyone, although I would tweak society around such that everyone was qualified with a number of weapons, and, guns were in almost every household. I would also try and work to change those aspects of society that promote poverty, drug use and desperation, which would likely take care of much of the crime. I suspect that these two things would go a LONG way towards making this a more polite and peaceful society. Regards Dave Mundt

More likely that in Oz, US, NZ etc it is because we HAD to do things ourselves, there was generally no estabilished infrastructure of services available, new immigrants had little money to pay for what few services were available, so DIY became the norm for things that were needed.

Nowadays DIY is becoming more prevalent because there are fewer tradesmen like painters doing renovation work. Alan in beautiful Golden Bay, Western Oz, South 32.25.42, East 115.45.44 GMT+8 VK6 YAB ICQ 6581610 to reply, change oz to au in address