Gunner may know something about it. Matsuura 500V for $1,000.
No connection to seller and no personal interest in buying.
I am also not sure whether to believe the seller.
I own its big brother, the MC1000V-DC twin spindle. One serious piece of
iron. Problem is the obsolete control. Refitting one of these guys is not an
amateur project like Iggy's knee mill.
They go cheap cause hobbyists don't want them and nearly all industry buys
new rather than doing a complete refit.
Karl
Karl, for my education, what is it that makes refitting them more
difficult.
With the Bridgeport, indeed, I find the process straightforward,
though laborious.
i
They are straightforward also, just ten times as much going on. So, too much
labor to be cost effective. And everything is large, expensive, and hard to
work on. I did just score an AMC 100A40 servo amp for the spindle at only
$150 on eBay vs. 2K new. It needs a 400 volt 100 amp DC supply that you
can't just cobble together with an old transformer, rectifier, and
electrolytic cap. The biggest differences are in the tool changer system and
the hydraulics for everything. otherwise, a mill is a mill is a mill.
Karl
At that price I would buy it if it was closer to me. The ATC would be a
big selling point for me. The fact that I worked on large machines with
ATCs for a number of years means I'm not scared off by the hydraulics or
the perceived complexity of the ATC. Functionally it doesn't make much
difference whether you're controlling pneumatics or hydraulics, it's
still solenoid valves and limit switches.
Pete, if you are patient, I'm sure you can find a similar machine in your
area.
I hope to be done with the refit part collecting stage for this mill by
winter. I do have one system that's a total mystery to me. That's the
hydraulic counter balance for the head. I'm sure it works by building to a
certain pressure on the lifting cyclinders. How does the control know its
balanced? What sort of sensors and etc. should I be looking for? There must
be lockouts and brakes for when the hydraulics aren't up.
Figuring this dual ATC out is going to be a real challenge for me. I got no
ladder logic diagrams or even electrical prints. And I've never seen it run.
Karl
Nope, it's very simple really. There are no sensors, no feedback or
anything of the sort, it's noting more than a hydraulic cylinder and an
adjustable relief valve. The relief valve controls the hydraulic
pressure applied so it counterbalances most of the head weight.
When the servo lifts the head up, more hydraulic fluid just fills the
cylinder as the pressure drops below the relief valve setting, and when
the servo lowers the head, excess fluid is just dumped out the relief
valve. Not really any different than the pneumatic counterbalances that
just provide regulated air pressure and vent excess air when the
cylinder is compressed.
Usually the servo has a magnetic brake on it that is released after the
hydraulics are up and the servo drive is up.
Ok, the general idea for that style ATC goes like this:
- Spindle orients to align drive lugs on the spindle to ATC toolholder
orientation
- Z axis moves to ATC height
- ATC cylinder moves ATC (still on the open pocket) in to place the ATC
pocket around the tool holder
- Drawbar hydraulic cylinder releases the drawbar
- Z axis moves up to tool holder clearance height
- ATC rotates to the new tool position
- Spindle air blow it turned on to blow any chips off the new tool
holder taper
- Z axis moves down to ATC height
- Spindle air blow is turned off
- Drawbar hydraulic cylinder releases, allowing the drawbar to clamp the
new tool holder
- ATC retracts
That's basically it. I think some mills skip the spindle orient and use
spring loaded drive lugs that click in if the toolholder slips and
otherwise it doesn't matter.
Do I get a bag of apples? I love apple crisps...
Mostly just having the I/O for what needs to be controlled and writing
the script for it. I know both EMC/EMC2 and Mach3 support scripting for
such tasks, I presume your software does as well.
A few things to think about:
- No tool change without the Z axis homed
- Use timeouts on the various steps, i.e. if the ATC at spindle position
limit switch isn't tripped in 3 seconds abort the sequence, something is
stuck.
- Homing and indexing of the ATC varies. If you're lucky you have the
type that uses a basic gearmotor and a Geneva mechanism to index it,
which makes control easy. Just turn on the motor until the ATC position
sensor cycles indicating the next position, or until the home sensor
indicates tool pocket 1.
- The Z positioning tolerance for a tool change is reasonably loose,
probably +/- 1/16" to seat the toolholder in the ATC pocket, so you
should be ok with simple limit switch homing if you want to go that
route vs. precision homing with limit switch and encoder index. I still
recommend the encoder index method since it only requires 3 extra inputs
and a bit more scripting. I also recommend using the decel switches to
allow much faster homing sequences.
Who knows, one of these days I might be out that way.
Matsuura is Good Stuff.
Couldnt read the date of manufacture. And cant tell what tooling it
uses. 30 or 40 taper, BNC?
Gunner
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
Pretty sure that's a BT30 machine.
No CRT on the control puts it in the late 80s or earlier. A guy that really
knows Matsuura can tell you when they switched from blue to the big red
machine. Then they switched back to blue again.
Karl
Ah! Thanks for the heads up. I dont run across many of them here on
the Left Coast.
Gunner
One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
Most all cnc machines after 1981 had CRT's. That control sorta looks
like a Fanuc 5 which was the predecessor to the Fanuc 6 but without the
crt and some functions. The control itself doesn't look very worn
around the knobs but the pictures aren't too clear either.
John
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