Metal rim vehicle tires

In 46 years, over half spent working as a mechanic, I have never seen a "properly touqued" wheel loosen off enough to lose a wheel. I've seen studs break, I've seen rims break, and I've seen wheels that were not "properly torqued" come loose. "properly torqued" does not mean just torqued to the proper spec with a torque wrench. It means torqued in the proper order to be 100% certain the rim is centered and the conical nuts are properly seated in the rim seats so the nuts cannot shift, decreasing the effective torque on the nuts. Pull basically finger tight, then torque in skip-mode, one nut, then the one roughly opposite it, then the one between them - etc, to about 1/4 torque - then follow the sequence again to about half torque, then up to final torque. There is no physical way they can lose torque if they are "properly torqued" and the wheel is "properly installed" - which means everything is reasonably clean and not rusted severely, and it goes together without forcing anything.

Exactly. Notice that stormin moron offers an oxymoron of nuts "properly" torqued with a HF wrench! Who needs calibration when you're protected by magic underwear? But regardless of how a wheel gets loose, the driver needs to be damned sleepy to not notice that something's wrong, sometimes for days before the wheel departure. The last guy I know that it happened to had personally tightened the lug nuts with a spark plug socket until it cracked. And he admitted that he knew something was amiss the following day but didn't care enough to stop and check. Good on him for his honesty, but his employer should have fired him and or made him pay for all the cost of the new studs and fender and the hours it took for another employee to make the rescue run. The same employee had already burned up a Powerstroke on account of never opening the hood for months. Company policy was a daily check for oil, water, and airbox. I guarantee you he isn't opening the hood over the new engine either. When his boss cries to me I can't muster the slightest sympathy.

Think of the lines of a pentagram leading you through the tightening ritual.

I finish by going around the circle to confirm that the wrench clicks on each, in case I messed up the star pattern.

If you worry about damaging the chrome on the lug nuts you can pound copper water pipe into the next larger size socket to pad it. jsw

I'm pleased to have the chance to share a new experience with you. The pleasure is all mine. No charge.

Your experience was in NOT properly torquing the wheel - guaranteed.

And the burden of proof rests on your shoulders.

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

LOL 1. The burden of proof is on you. Having your HF torque wrench properly calibrated would be the first step. 2. Your belief in magic underwear means you gave up your right to ask anyone for proof of anything ever.

Can you calm down and not take this so personally?

The warning you gave me to retorque makes sense to cover several common mistakes which Clare and I have mentioned. We are saying you don't need to retorque if you avoid those mistakes. jsw

Can you prove that I'm not calm? Clare is telling me without being here to see, that I'm doing it wrong, and that I'm mistaken about the event that I personally experienced. Please be kind enough to write to Clare a few words on that subject.

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

Actually, it falls on YOURS to prove you torqued the wheel properly. It was YOU who had the failure. Of the litterally thousands - even tens of thousands of wheel nuts I have torqued, I've never had a wheel come off because wheel nuts backed off. I had an apprentice fail to torque a wheel once - it came loose within 10 miles. Also had an apprentice forget to put the cotter pin in the rear axle nut on an MGB - it took over 500 miles for the nut (and the rear wheel) to come off. I didn't check the torque when my daughter changed her tire on her Neon. A couple days later she called and said the car shook sometimes at low speeds - the nuts were loose on one wheel. She had only used the wheel wrench that came with the car/jack and she's not a big girl - so it had not been "properly torqued".

If you just use the lug-wrench that comes with the car it IS a good idea to check the torque in 50 miles or so.

You're the one who guaranteed me that I did it wrong. Prove it.

I never once claimed anything about "right". Other than using a torque wrench, I actually never described the process I used. Since you guarantee I did it wrong, you have the burden of proof to tell me what I did. I expect some detail, too.

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

OK. It is OBVIOUS it was not doen "right" - and all I have ever said is a "properly installed" wheel, with the lugs "properly torqued" will not loosen and come off. So obviously, without having watched you do it, you did SOMETHING wrong. You used a torque wrench. A "harbour Freight" torque wrench - don't know if it was any good, if it was properly calibrated, if it was properly set, or if it was properly used. I don't know if you had the wheel cocked on the center when you torqued it, or if you had to force it on and the conical depressions around the holes in the wheels were not centered on the studs, don't know if the rim was rusty - but one or more of those conditions LIKELY existed.

Explain to me how the steel conical nut could scrink, the stud could stretch, or the rim shrink enough to reduce the torque on the stud/nut combination and I might believe you. Make it a REAL good explanation, backed up by sound physics, and I won't have much choice.

With an aluminum rim on a steel hub with steel studs and nuts torqued at 90 degrees F, and it drops to -40c, the assembly would lose torque due to differential expansion. - but that isn't anywhere close to your circumstances, I'll bet.

Well, that pretty much makes my case. You really should not comment on things when you weren't there, and don't know what happened.

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

I know what DIDN'T happen

Must be nice to know things, with no source of information. You do palm reading and ouiji, also?

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

You have provided all the necessary information. If you'd tightened the nuts properly then the wheel wouldn't have fallen off. If you'd checked all the wheels when you heard the racket then the wheel wouldn't have fallen off. If you had any common sense then you wouldn't be pretending that tightening lug nuts PROPERLY can result in a wheel falling off. If your brain was engaged in the slightest then you'd know better than to argue with Clare about this subject. There isn't the tiniest doubt that he knows what he's talking about and you don't.

No, but I've been a mechanic for 45 years, including several years teaching the trade, and 10 years as a service manager. One heck of a lot more experience and knowlege about automotive things than you have. Three years of competetive driving as well - which beats the heck out of whatever you are driving - and my car only had a grand total of 12 lug-nuts.

I'm still waiting for any evidence of your (mistaken) claims. Writing a couple of paragraphs of "I'm the most experienced" doesn't prove your point. Helps prove mine, though.

. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus

(Credit for the cartoon goes to my son.)