Mills and Drills

Actually, I'm trying to stay away from HF and Grizzly because Don hinted that I could do better.

I'm concentrating on a lathe because it's one can do more with it than a drill press, and operation is simpler than a mill and therefore it follows that there would be less in the way of maintenance issues to worry about.

P.S: I did fill out that form, but didn't yet received that catalog.

Thanks.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

Hi Darren,

They are a bit more expensive than what I can afford, provided I can get something similar elsewhere. They do have some unique stuff though and their prices aren't terribly bad. If you do get a catalog (like I said, it took about a week or so, I was surprised it was so quick) it is great for just researching what is available. Nobody said you had to buy the goody/item from them too ;-)

I'm looking into the old Craftsman mills and lathes now, since it seems that older may be better for my purposes.

The problem I'm running into is that I wouldn't know a good(or bad) deal when I see one on a machine like an old Atlas mill or Atlas lathe. And there seems to be little info on these machines on the internet.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

Au contraire! There is a wealth of information on Atlas lathes. start with the atlas_craftsman Yahoo group. Check the files section and the links. Less info on the mills, because they are fairly scarce. I don't recall your original purpose, but I can tell you from experience and wide research, that an Atlas lathe is very light-duty. The beds are light and flexible, compared to anything else with a similar work envelope. They also tend to be a little pricy compared to some better lathes. I've had 2 Atlas machines, one of which I bought as a basket case. you learn a lot about a machine that way. Once mine was finished, I sold it muy pronto. For the same money as an Atlas you can buy a decent Logan. Logan is well supported by Scott Logan. You can get almost anything for them, even though they were last built in the 1960s. They are a heavier lathe, on a par with Southbend. For example, I have a 36" bed from a

As for mills, all the nice small vertical mills seem to go quickly for silly money, at least in this area (Texas). Right now I'm looking at Pantographs as a lower-cost alternative.

(Sigh). Back to the drawing board. It seems that everytime I start to zero in on what machine to get, someone comes up with a reason to look at something else.(So I'll scratch the Atlas stuff).

I think that most here just have to do heavier work in larger envelopes than I am thinking about for myself. So perhaps I can get away with a machine that only weighs a couple hundred pounds.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

Darren, let's temper that a little. If you run across a nice Atlas/Craftsman 10" or 12" at a good deal, buy it. I would, and I do. I just missed a late-model cabinet-mount 12" in the classifieds that was a few miles from me, for $200. I'd have been on that like a duck on a june bug, but someone beat me to it. I'd give $500 for one of the late-model square-headstock, cabinet-mount units with basic tooling. Still a light-duty 12x36, but nothing to dismiss out of hand. Heck, a

According to Gunner :

Given your problems with getting the machine upstairs to your apartment, I think that the Atlas benchtop mill may well do as much of what you need as you can manage in anything you can get up those stairs without someone who knows machines to disassemble it at the bottom and reassemble it at the top.

I think that the Atlas mill is a better machine than the little Atlas lathes -- but even so, the 6x18" Atlas (or the Atlas/Craftsman) will probably work for you. *Absolutely* avoid the Craftsman lathes whose serial number starts with 109 -- those are the AA brand machines, and are very weakly built. The 6x16" Atlas lathes are weaker than most of the alternatives (I know, I have one, along with more substantial lathes), but a complete one (with full set of change gears) will allow you to cut threads, and otherwise will at least get you started. You

A nice machine -- but too much for him to get upstairs. Narrow, twisty stairs (based on his description), and no elevator. I'm not sure whether he has a safe place to disassemble a good lathe so he could carry it up the stairs one part at a time.

Agreed -- *if* he could get it up his stairs.

Hmm ... I'm not sure whether the noise will be another problem. I guess that it depends on whether his downstairs neighbors are deaf. :-)

Enjoy, DoN.

I have not been following this thread so forgive me if I repeat something.

It appears you are a beginner with limited funds living in an apartment. I think you should look at the import 7x10 or 7x12 mini-lathes. They are small and reasonably cheap and will get you started. There are lots of web sites out there showing how to improve these machines. If your projects are small you can look at sherline too. They are a good way to get started but you can spend a lot of money on them and you might outgrow them quickly. Another good option is the import 7x20 lathes but they cost a lot more than the 7x10 minilathes

I have owned several atlas/craftsman lathes and mills. I didn't care much for the atlas horizontal mill and would not recommend it to a beginner. The atlas lathes are ok but not nearly up to the level of the bigger machines like logans, south bends, clausing etc. Bruce, one of Dick Trimstra's friends specializes in restoring atlas lathes and I have seen some beautiful 6 inch atlas lathes for reasonable prices. Even for a 6 inch lathe, you will need to dedicate a fair amount of room for it. You can stuff a mini lathe or sherline into the closet if you chose.

My favorite small lathe is the myford super 7, but its probably out of your price range.

Good suggestion. I had forgotten that Darren had to carry it up stairs. that would eliminate all the Logans except the 9", which are not as common.

If your

I think you mean 9x10 (9x19, 9x18). Agreed. They seem to be available for $500 used, pretty regularly.

New, take a serious look at the 8X lathes from HF and lathemaster, among others. They are a big step up from the 7X series, having nothing in common with them. They are about twice as heavy or more.

A 10" Atlas breaks down into manageable pieces and can be re-assembled easily. The 54" bed is a handfull for one person, probably weighs close to 100 lbs. But that's the heaviest part and it's shaped well for carrying.

I think my Logan 9" is pretty close to a Myford in a lot of ways. About $800 well-tooled.

@#$%!

Here we go again. I was zeroing in on a 9" Logan before the noise issue came up.

Is this a genral problem with Logans more than others?

Obviously swapping out the motor is way out of the question.(The Logan I was thinking about doesn't ahve quick change gears either, so perhaps this is for the best).

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

In the running until a couple of days ago was a brand new Micro-Mark Microlux that a relatively local guy would sell to me for $525(which is $70 + shipping cost less than just getting it form Micro-Mark). But during my research the whole "toy" lathe vs. "real" lathe issue came up, and I'm warned to stay away for the HF, Grizzly, MM, ect. stuff.

Hmmm... Just came across a lightly used Sheldon lathe for $560 from out of a high school.(10" swing, 3 jaw, dead center, tool holder, some reamers, dog plate, a few dogs).

But the seller tells me it is about 800lbs(Model #EL 46P.

(If I had a place to put it I would jump on this in a heartbeat). :-(

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

According to :

No -- it depends on the work you are doing. But any workpiece out of balance will transfer energy to the floor through the feet -- either of the lathe or the table on which you mount the lathe, depending on whether it comes with a stand or not.

If the bit starts to chatter, that will probably produce some interesting sounds downstairs -- with *any* size and brand of lathe.

Old belts can take a set, and introduce more vibration than fresh belts would. A gearhead lathe will probably generate a different kind of noise from the meshing of the gears -- but they would be to heavy to get up to your apartment anyway.

Rubber pads between the feet and the floor will reduce that somewhat -- but will allow lathe bed warp from not having a rigid mounting. (Of course, your floor is not that rigid anyway -- a concrete floor would be better. But that slight inaccuracy probably won't be a problem with the kind of parts you are making.

Huh? The motor simply provides the power, and assuming that it is properly balanced (including the pulley), it will generate less noise than the actual work being done on the lathe. Light cuts at the right speeds will be quiet, wrong speeds or too heavy a cut will lead to chatter, and that will transfer through the floor to downstairs.

Quick change is convenient -- but it adds to the weight. The little Atlas (6x18) never came with quick-change. Larger ones had quick-change as an option.

Really -- get something small and cheap, and start using it. You *will* need something better, but the only way to learn what you will need is to get experience doing *your* kind of jobs on it. For this, a small, used machine will hold its value better when you discover that you need more machine (and a proper place to *put* that larger machine), so you can re-sell it without a significant loss.

Enjoy, DoN.

Nope. Ok, fromthatprevious post it seemed as though Logans were just generally more noisy lathes. But as long as that's not the case...

I wa thinking that the motor and the specific matellurgical properties of the gears made the lathe noiseir than others. But again, wince what you mentioned applies to all lathes, then no problem.

Even though it wasn't spec, perhaps there is a way to add QC gears to the Logan in the future?(It's a Logan model 400).

Hmmm... That brings me back to the Microlux from Micro-Mark...

Thanks.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

That MM lathe just went on sale for $499 until Feb 1. If you are considering a 7X, (I would) this is the Cadillac.

I'm not aware of a noise problem. My 9" Logan doesn't seem to be any more noisy than my 10" Enco, nor the last 10" Atlas. The gears were a little noisy until I found a good viscous gear lube.

At any rate, I don't think the noise level would be an issue in an apartment.

An atlas 10X36 can be carried by one person on a dolly (THOUGH A SPOTTER IS HIGHLY RECOMMENDED)

From having done this 2 months ago i would recommend moving it with the slide on the bed and the headstock at the base of the dolly

but i will also recommend removing the motor and clutch assembly before doing it as they do break down in to easy to carry peices

I owned two 12 inch craftsman/atlas lathes. They are ok. I now have a rockwell 11 inch and I would never go back.

I have never used a 9 inch logan. I have owned two atlas 12 inch lathes, one atlas 6 inch lathe, and 3 myfords. I sold all the atlas lathes and kept the minty green myford super 7. It cost about as much as the 3 atlas lathes too! I would trade the myford for a hardinge but not a similar size logan, south bend etc.

Are you sure about that?

I just noticed an 8" X 12" at Harbor Freight. It seems to be about twice as heavy and with a stronger motor:

And are any of these really a better deal than that Logan #400 9 inch lathe we were talking about?

Thanks.

Darren Harris Staten Island, New York.

According to :

The noise which matters to you is what is conducted through the feet to the floor -- unless you have it close to a wall shared with another apartment.

The connection from the motor to the rest of the lathe is normally V-belts, or flat belts on a really old lathe. The gears are mostly in the thread drive from the spindle -- at least in anything which you are likely to get up the stairs.

I don't know. Check Logan's web site. See whether a related machine (same size) was available with a quick-change gearbox. If so, expect to have to change the leadscrew, and probably some other gearing in the headstock when you make the change. Or get another machine with the right setup, and sell this one.

Enjoy, DoN.