Motor wiring help

Electrical is a big weak point for me... I think I can do what I want with this, but maybe somebody can take a look and see...
http://www.ejearchive.com/temp/motor.jpg
I can just hook the red and black up to a grounded power cord on that and be done, right? The green does go to the chassis for ground. I don't need to have a power switch or anything. This is to power my parts tumbler project.
While I'm at it... I need to push a 5/8" rubber hose onto a 5/8" shaft for about 3 feet and have the rubber not spin once it's on there... But after about 6", it gets pretty hard to push onto the shaft. Anybody got any tricks? I was thinking maybe put soapy water on there and then when the water dries out it might be tight enough.
Thanks for any help,
Dave
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On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:47:15 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Wild assed guess, but I suspect that you need the capacitor specified on the label, connected between the red and black wire.

Connect the open end of the hose to a source of compressed air which, when you insert the shaft into the hose, will cause the hose to enlarge slightly allowing you to slide it in with moderate effort. When you turn off the air, the hose resumes its original size. Gerry :-)} London, Canada
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    The capacitor is apparently external to the motor, and needs to go between the black and red wires. I don't know whether you can re-wire it to rotate the other direction -- there aren't enough wires.
    And the capacitor must be a motor-starting capacitor (pick it up from a motor shop to get the right kind of cap).

    The green from the power cord goes to the green/yellow from the motor. That is internally connected to the motor's chassis.

    Better to have a switch in the cord than to switch it by plugging and unplugging it. The latter would result in a lot of arc damage to the plug and the wall socket over time.

    Try K-Y jelly. I use it for pushing rubber handles onto feed levers and such (among other uses. :-)
    It will dry out soon enough.
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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OK, I had a feeling I would need a capacitor... I'll figure it out.
Good tips on the hose shaft, thanks.
I also just noticed that the motor doesn't have a notch or keyway on the shaft. I think it might have been used with a coupler to direct drive. Can I just notch the shaft for a pulley? This is why I hate buying used stuff... You always have to adapt and it costs as much as something new in the end.
Dave
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On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 22:15:53 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I prefer to drill a dimple for a set screw, then install two short set screws one behind the other - same effect as a jam nut. Gerry :-)} London, Canada
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    [ ... ]

    If you're sliding rubber tubing onto it -- why would you *need* the keyway? You are better off without, I would think.

    Sure -- you'll want a conventional milling cutter (looks like a thick saw blade about 4" in diameter), and the arbor to drive it in your mill. Get one the same thickness as the desired width of the keyway, and cut the depth half of the width of the keyway for most keys. You *can* use a tiny two-flute end mill, but those are easy to break if you feed too fast. For the 4" mill, crank down to as slow as your mill will run -- unless you have a horizontal mill which will run even slower for six, eight, or ten inch diameter cutters. :-)

    That's why (or at least, we) you have a shop full of tools -- so you/we *can* adapt the free stuff. :-)
    Enjoy,         DoN.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

It looks to me that your Active and Neutral on you power lead connect to red and white on the motor. The cap ( symbol -I(- )is connected between black and red. Green is Earth. You'll need a cap as close to 150 uF as you can get. Any voltage over and including 150V will be ok. I also think you should use a power switch and make sure you switch the Active and not the Neutral side. If you switch Neutral and it is plugged in, the motor will always be 'live'. It won't be running, but it will have power going to it all the time! Above all...be careful!
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Hair spray is a good lubricant for sliding on the tubing. When it dries it becomes like an adhesive.
Another suggestion would be to cut the rubber tubing into about 6" lengths, which you push on one at a time, butting them end-to-end. If this is the drive system for a tumbler, it shouldn't matter that there are seams. Short lengths can be pushed easily, but don't try pulling--that makes the diameter smaller and the tubing grips like a Chinese finger trap.
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Frayed knot there, Dave. This motor is a PSC type (permanent split capacitor), and it may be a good idea to try to find the specifications for this motor (by the numbers on the labels), before expecting very much from it. A GE dealer may be able to get you a spec sheet if you can't find it online. One reason for getting the manufacturer's specifications is because the motor may have a limited duty cycle.. many PSC motors do, although the CL-A INS CONT. may mean Class A INSulation, CONT (duty) with AIR moving OVER the motor.
The other reason is because the 158 MFD seems unusually large for a small motor.
The capacitor should be a Run capacitor (not a start cap), and 150 microfarad (uF) is a fairly large value for a Run cap. Motor capacitors are AC-types only (generally not available at places like that Shack store), and are aluminum canisters with large terminals on them. The 158.0 MFD looks odd to me, because run caps for motors this size are usually less than 50 microfarad.
***Important part*** If you're unsure of any of the connections, you'll need to get some help from someone that is experienced and qualified to work with motor wiring.
The diagram descriptor "LINE" means the 2 AC power cord leads. When one AC power lead is connected to the red, and one to the white, the motor will run in the direction indicated by the arrow ROT.
If the AC power lead is changed from the red to the black (leaving the other AC power lead connected to the white, as it was), then the motor will run in the opposite direction.
Any AC line source needs a switch to disconnect the power, and including a fuse is always a sensible decision.
The capacitor is permanently wired between the black and red motor leads. One AC power lead will connect to the Red motor lead as the diagram shows.
The White motor lead is the other AC power lead.
The Brown motor lead needs to be insulated and kept separate (no connection).
The standard wiring connections would be a 3-wire AC power cord (with ground/green lead). The Green lead is solidly connected to the motor housing for the earth safety ground connection. It's always an excellent idea to attach the green/ground lead first (for almost any kind of electrical work). If you sometimes don't attach it first, you'll probably find out why it's the best approach, eventually. Operating electric motors without a safety/earth ground lead securely connected to the motor case will potentially create a shock hazard, which under certain circumstances can be lethal.
The White AC power cord lead would be attached to the White motor lead, and the connection is well-insulated.
The capacitor is installed between the Red and Black motor leads.
If you want the motor to run in the direction of the label arrow, the Black AC power cord lead will attach to a suitable switch, then the fuse, and then the Red motor lead (at the same point where it attaches to one capacitor terminal). Then this junction is well-insulated.
The capacitor connection to the Black motor lead is also well-insulated.
Any other bare metal parts of any of the connections are also well-insulated.
When the motor is mounted where it is wanted, you'll need to locate a place to securely mount the capacitor and the well-insulated fuse (or fuse holder).
If at some time in the future, if you want to reverse the rotation of the motor, this can be accomplished by: (a) removing the connection where the Black AC power cord (switched-fused) lead attaches to the Red motor lead and the one capacitor terminal, and
(b) connect that Black AC power cord lead to the Black motor lead (where it connects to the other terminal of the capacitor).
Then the bare junctions are well-insulated before ever plugging in the AC power cord.
WB ......... metalworking projects www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

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Thanks for all the help... Sounds like maybe this one is going to go back. I think it was originally a fan motor, and it may in fact need that fan to move air over it.
Let me ask this... What would be a good motor to run what is basically a rock tumbler that's going to have a vessel to hold about 15-18 pounds of stuff? I noticed a professional one was using a motor that was 1725 RPM and only 1/30 HP I think. I don't want to blow $200 on a motor because this just isn't worth it. The device will probably run about max 3 hours at a time. I was also thinking about getting a cheap drill press and using the motor out of that... Those already come with all the wiring and capacitor, but I was worried about the duty cycle.
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And I was thinking that you were just gonna try out a small tumbler to try out the process. One thing that's in the 15-18 pound load range is a washing machine, although there are a lot of other things going on in a washing machine, where a 1/30 HP motor definitely wouldn't be adequate.
I generally have some fractional HP motors around for various projects, and I'd consider a 1/4 HP motor to be fairly reasonable size and a reliable power source. I'm no engineer and the TLAR will usually suffice for me (that looks about right).
I find used fractional HP motors at flea markets and garage sales for about $5, and I'll feel kinda fortunate to find a Dayton or other similar-quality motor, rather than some motor that was saved from a worn out appliance, as those often have strange mountings, fully ventilated cases where lots of debris can get in, and they sometimes need a capacitor too.
A smaller motor is probably adequate, particularly if a belt is used to slow down the tumbler. I haven't built a tumbler, so I don't know what speed you're looking for. My guess would be about 60 RPM, and slow speeds like that indicate a gearmotor or gearhead motor with a speed reduction gearbox attached. Gearmotors generally have lots of power for their size, and the output shaft speed is a fraction of the motor's speed, depending upon the gear ratio.. 20 to 1, 60 to 1 etc.
I don't know where you've looked, but one good source that numerous RCM participants rely on is Surplus Center http://www.surpluscenter.com/
If you're wanting to get started right away, an electric drill with variable speed might get you started, to determine the approximate speed will work well for what you want to accomplish. The cheap drill press would probably provide numerous advantages. You'll be able to change speeds (somewhat limited) and lots of extra parts, some that might be valuable in completing the tumbler project. The drill press might also provide a more versatile power source, if you want to try different sized drums. I've seen the small units for about $50 locally, and considered buying one just to have it for improvising a project quickly. The motor's may be of somewhat questionable quality, but would probably be OK as long as they have good ventilation.
For any previously unproven power application, it would probably be wise to operate a system undergoing testing nly while you're present, and not leave an unproven setup operate unattended.
WB ......... metalworking projects www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

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Thanks Bill, I didn't know about that site. I think HF still has the small press on sale for $40. I think I'll try that... It's got all the wiring and everything already and I could probably find a use for the left over parts. I might be able to squeeze a fan between the small pulley and the motor to help cool.
I'm basically building a long version of this to tumble long parts:
http://www.thumlerstumbler.com/images/rotary_b.jpg
That one handles 15 pounds and in a close-up I saw that the motor looked to be 1725 at 1/30 HP. Which seemed kind of small to me, but it must work. My vessel will probably hold about 15-18 pounds. I calculated the the ratio for mine to be a 1 1/2" drive pulley with 7" driven pulley, for about a 70 rpm on the vessel. Assuming the motor is 1725.
And thanks for the other people's suggestions on the shaft thing.
Dave
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I had a quick look at the picture of the commecial model, and I see how they utilize such a small motor. The first speed reduction is the small motor pulley (1/2"?) to the black pulley (4"?), and the black pulley that is part of the powered roller (1/2?), then the roller drives the drum (about 10"?).
These 2 levels of speed reduction will effectively increase the power of the motor while greatly reducing the speed of the drum. I didn't look up the capacity of the commercial unit's drum.
The commercial machine design also permits the use of a smaller motor. If your machine design is using an equivalent system of speed reduction, the GE PSC motor that you have may be adequate for rotating a larger drum at approximately the same speed as the commercial unit (depending upon, if the GE motor is rated for continuous duty).
So now I think I understand the question about sliding a long section of tubing onto shafts.. for the drum rollers. Pulling the tubing will cause it to grip more, but pushing the tubing may work if liquid soap is used (without water), otherwise, you may have to shop around for different tubing with a slightly larger ID. If nothing can be found, cutting the tubing in a long spiral will go on the shafts much more easily (although it may require glue/adhesive).
WB ......... metalworking projects www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

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