Mythbusters stuff

My dad tells of his remembrance of his grandfather trying to get Model T engines to run on nitroglycerin. This was on a very large ranch back in the 30's, when and where having explosives around was not considered a big deal. He was just a pup and doesn't recall much more than his grandfather got an engine to idle, but any attempt to run above idle would blow the engines. He said there was a pile of engines outside the barn with a variety of failures you would not expect to see in an engine. Would give about anything to have a good picture of that pile...

Jon

I know there were a variety of tractors that used a 'shotgun' like shell as a starting mechanism. Not sure how common it was.

Pete

That's a Kauffmann starter, also used in a lot of aircraft up to the F-4, at least. it was a pretty big shell (at least for an F-4) with a SLOW-burning powder. it would give about 15 seconds of continuous gas production.

Jon

Some piston aircraft engines too IIRC.

Jeff

"Jon Anderson" wrote: (clip) his

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What his grandfather didn't understand is that you don't want the charge in the cylinder to *explode*. You want it to burn as evenly as possible on the power stroke. That is what anti-knock is all about.

Mr. Diesel (Rudolf I think) was killed trying to make an engine run on coal dust if I remember right.

BobH

ISTR an article many years ago in PopSci about a turbine fired with coal dust . A bit more abrasive than steam I'd think ...

He was injured in the explosion (for the second time in his life; the first time was when a steam engine of his design, which used ammonia for a working medium, blew up on him), but it didn't kill him. He was lost overboard on a steamship -- possibly a suicide.

-- Ed Huntress

Diesel's mysterious fate:

I think the USAF used them. The Marine F4J and F4S I worked on required compressed air to start.

Wes

And how do you -know- he didn't understand that? He got the engines to run, which meant the nitro was burning. He just couldn't control things well enough to do much beyond that. Admittedly, it was shade tree engineering. But I'd bet money if Great-Grandpa were around to be questioned, he would certainly know the difference between burning and exploding with respect to internal combustion engines.

Jon

Yep, The common one many people see is the Field Marshall Diesel with the shotgun start option. It was a brass 12 gauge shell. Primer, powder and a wax seal disc. You opened the starting port, remove the old shell, then install the new one. Screw the top back on the port. Hit the striker with a hammer to fire the shell. Then stand back and watch the engine jump (single BIG piston diesel) the nose of the tractor.

Wafting a oxy-act torch (with the act. valve open) in front of a reluctant engine is an old trick however, my experience is that it can result in broken rings as acetylene does not apparently have a very high octane rating.

I have read a reference to R. Diesel's original engine, that ran on coal dust, saying something like "the second model was redesigned to run on coal oil in an effort to produce an engine that did not self destruct". Words to that effect, anyway. Cheers,

Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think it's a fair assumption, since the fuel he chose is highly explosive. Even gasoline can suffer pre-ignition (sometimes incorrectly called "detonation") which will damage the engine if allowed to continue. This is the reason for anti-knock additives, and in modern cars, automatic ignition retard. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing what he did. He was doing this at a time when a lot of people didn't know a lot of the things that we know now. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Admittedly, it was shade tree engineering. But I'd bet money if Great-Grandpa were

It's pointless to argue over a question that can't be settled. It still leaves me pondering about what he hoped to accomplish, since Model T's were running pretty well on gasoline.

There was also a "shotgun" starter that used a blank shell of some sort. I never saw one but I remember in tech school a reference to one being used by the Navy in some of their early recip engines. Apparenttly it went off with a bang as opposed to the Kaufman. Cheers,

Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Nope, he died during a cross channel ferry trip. Lost overboard an apparent suicide.

Cheers,

Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

That's one thing Dad never learned. I suspect it was just one of those "I wonder if this might work" things. Would never have been practical for general use. Imagine a collision resulting in both vehicles blown to bits or someone running into a 'nitro pump' and leveling the whole block....

What's funny about it to me is that Great Grandpa never transitioned well into automobiles. His first move in trying to get a car to stop was to yell "Whoa..."

Jon

"Jon Anderson" wrote: (clip) Great Grandpa never transitioned

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :-)