New X Prize Foundation Award For 100MPG

Took me a while to figure out just what they want built. Too bad Burt Rutan isn't in to cars.

Wes

He is, he buys British.

100mpg is trivial - production cars have already achieved 80mpg nearly a decade ago. The 200g/mile emissions is hardly anything to write home about either.

Which production cars have achieved 80 mpg in real world driving conditions?

Wes

The Freeway. From the mid 80's.

Granted it was a very lightweight "car"

1998 VW Lupo

Official test figures performed for EU wide fuel consumption and emissions levels are one thing (hence the 80mpg) but a motoring journalist drove one the entire length of the UK under observed conditions in normal traffic and achieved much more than 80mpg, iirc it was closer to 100mpg.

Seven years ago one was also driven around 12000 miles in real world conditions on 5 continents and achieved 95.2 mpg

But if you are a fat lard assed american with a fat lard assed wife together with half a dozen fat lard assed kids eating 5000 calories a day then you'll still need an SUV achieving all of 10mpg with a following wind and a war every few years to ensure an adequate supply of fuel :)

Of course 100mpg is not essential, Intelligent car purchasers in the USA can today buy a car that does 0-60 in under 5 seconds, produce under 200g/mile of CO2 AND return over 40mpg. It only seats two normal

- as in "rest of the world" sized people though. :)

If it is so trivial, why can't I find a pick up (full size or small) that will do much better than 20 MPG?

Jay Cups

Mike wrote:

'Cause the marketing geniuses at the car companies all think that we want to "need" 100's of horsepower instead.

It surprises the hell out of me that there are no Diesel 1/4 ton basic trucks out there, any more, without doing a sea can import from a third world country. There was a good run on them coming in to Canada back in the early 80's, when the fuel crunch was supposedly on, but they were too much like trucks for most people that drove them.

I pretty much want a third world model Toyota diesel Hilux 4x4. Sorta the same chassis as the late 70's 4x4, with a painted interior, a simple

4 cylinder engine, and a standard transmission. The marketers think I need a obese simulated truck that rides like a Caddilac, has the interior of one too, as well as the gas mileage of one.

Even a really basic model like a B2200 or whatever Toyota's equivalent, with a basic modern diesel engine in it would be pretty good. A VW TDI Jetta is getting 50mpg+, and packing a lot of dress-up and soundproofing weight while so doing, I see no reason beyond marketing that there are not a pile of them out there.

Cheers Trevor Jones

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 22:58:17 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Trevor Jones quickly quoth:

No, they've done their homework and found that most of us WANT that extra horsepower. What I want are good mileage AND lotsa horsies.

Yeah, that surprises me, too.

Having a truck which rides like a car is a nice thing, IMHO, and I'm getting to the age where having electric windows would be nice, too.

I'd bet the dealerships would be inundated by buyers if they did that. They just haven't asked the right questions to their pollees.

1/4 ton? Last time I heard that term was about the M151A1 Jeep. What does 1/4 ton truck actually mean, anyway? Certainly it can't mean Driver + Passenger + 100 lbs. (The M151A1 could certainly carry more than that!)

We have a Jeep Liberty with 2.8L Turbo Common Rail Diesel and 5-speed automatic (no manual available). The sticker claims it'll get 26 mpg on the highway. After ~6000 miles of winter driving the best tank has been 24mpg but hopefully summer fuel will bring better numbers. I won't be at all surprised to see even better than the advertised 26 mpg once the engine's broken in. Rated cargo + passenger, 1200-and-some-odd lbs. and a towing capacity of 5000 lbs. Not bad for a 4-banger, heh?

Ok, so not your basic small truck, but the Sport package doesn't have a lot of the (useless) amenities.

Hmmm... my parents' TDI Jetta averages about 42mpg. They might have had a tank or two of 50mpg in the 5 years they've had it, but it's extremely rare... you know, tailwind, driving from the mountains to the seacoast... VW I believe has switched over from TDI to CRD along with everyone else.

My geezermobile ('05 Toyota Echo) gets 35 MPG winter, city driving. Best was 53 summer, highway, AC on, on a trip last July (48 average over 4000 miles, two adults, Puppy and luggage). Of course, these are Imperial gallons which are 1.2 USG. Gerry :-)} London, Canada

A "city car" isn't going to fit the needs of many drivers unless they have another car for more substantial duties.

I'll keep driving my 2001 Saturn SL1 that gets 33-36 mpg (90,000 mi average) and is able to brave northern michigan winters better than that thing is likely to.

In better weather a lightweight 5x8 trailer allows me to bring home plywood and such which has helped me get over not owning a roadable truck anymore.

Wes

I almost bought a Liberty CRD, then I read up on all the problems people were having with the engine, and then Chrysler announced the discontinuation of the CRD, so I didn't buy one. Plus I didn't see any reason that a vehicle that size needed to weigh over 4000 lbs. I also expect it to get better fuel economy than it does. I was disappointed.

Get a TDI while you can. The current VW TDI is probably the highest evolution point of the small diesel powerplant. Common Rail is all the rage now because it's cheaper to build, but it's also less efficient.

Apparently the Grand Cherokee is the only Jeep with a CRD (3.0L V6) option this year, though Dodge has the same engine in the Sprinter.

5000 lbs. towing w/ 750lbs. tongue weight is the reason. You can't do that with a Kia Sportage for instance. Matter of fact, the Sportage we had was rated at a measly 750 lbs. towing capacity. You can put as much on the Jeep tongue as you can tow with the 4 cyl. Sportage!

If you think the CRD mpg numbers are bad, you should look at the V6 gasoline numbers!

That's exactly the opposite of what I've read. The CRD piezo injector control is so fast it allows multiple injections of varying duration to customize the combustion process. The old TDI uses relatively slow electromagnetic solenoids, so is limited to pretty much a single injection per stroke.

Less expensive to build, of course, but MORE efficient,

Also, it appears that VW is touting the efficiency and emmissions of CRD as the reason for their switch away from TDI, "In an effort to improve efficiency and emissions, Volkswagen Auto Group recently announced that it would be switching to common-rail turbo diesel technology," and "Common rail engines are capable of producing multi-phase injections for even greater efficiency, performance, refinement and drastically reduced emissions." from

Cuz your not looking at a Toyota.

My 1997 Toyota Tacoma with 150k+ miles got 27 mpg highway with the AC going full blast on my trips from Phoenix to Yuma Arizona. This was the average over 10+ trips. (You lose count since is SUCH a boring trip.)

Oh yea, I averaged 75 mph for the 196 mile trip and that was with one minor town to slow down to 35 for the speed traps.

I have hauled a 1500 lb lathe in the back (Yea, it was a bit overloaded) and many a 3500lb or better trailer behind it. Best thing is with the small cab it cools down quickly. (THANK GOD IN 120+ heat.)

Except for the rock chips on the hood and the necessary bumps and scratches in the bed it looks new. Only thing I've done is oil changes every 3,000 miles and tune-ups and parts per the factory maintainance schedule. I did have to replace one O2 sensor at 120K miles.

I'm bored stiff driving this thing, but why spend money on a new truck when mine looks new and I haven't had a payment in 8 years. Insurance is only $73 per month for FULL coverage including glass.

I even got a check back from State Farm for $87 this month due to my low claim rate. (Even though I had 3 windshields replaced in the 10 years I owned the truck.)

Not too shabby. Just bought a new CD player so I'd have something new in the truck and give me a reason not to sell her out of boredom.

Bart

Bart D. Hull snipped-for-privacy@inficad.com Tempe, Arizona

Check

for my Subaru Engine Conversion Check for Tango II I'm building.

Remove -nospam to reply via email.

JayCups wrote:

I may be wrong, but off the top of my head, production cars have already exceeded 100mpg.... I think daihatsue made a 1 litre turbocharged diesel version of the charade that was sold in the uk and a few other countries, had a 5 speed manual gear box and did just slightly better than 100mpg.

Shaun

Hey Bart,

Is your Taco a 4 or 6?

Jay

Bart D. Hull wrote:

96 Ford Ranger longbed w/cap, 2.3L w/5sp., 23mpg.