Sorry for off topic but I just have to vent a little.... Just did a little reading on this new law (for the banks) concerning everyones checking account. Are we nuts for letting this get through? Can we do something about getting it repealed? Some reading:
Make sure you have the money in there before you spend it that's all. It's called financial planning.
BI, for one, hope it helps with a huge problem; bad checks. With the long delays until you know you took a bad check, we've often taken a second bad one from the same customer. You may not know this, but our banker also charges for taking the bad check. So we're not only out the purchase cost, we're out the bad check charge in addition.
Karl
Oh, yeah, Karl! Seems the banks know where to get the money as they know WHO has some... certainly not the guy who wrote the bad check! SOMEBODY has to pay and the banks are gonna get THEIRS one way or anohter....
b.
Jeez, I haven't gotten checks back in YEARS. I do all my banking at a credit union, and for the most part I pay everything from automatic deduction. I only write about 7 or 8 checks a year. Credit unions typically make you use the kind of checks where you get a sort of "carbon copy" and that is your written history. Credit unions also have MUCH lower (in many cases zero) fees and are MUCH less obnoxious to deal with. I have no idea why anyone puts up with banks anymore, unless you are lucky enough to live in a place where they still have small independent well-run banks.
My dad (in his mid-80s) has about 4 filing cabinets full of old returned checks. I bet no one has ever asked him to prove he made that car payment in 1951, but by gum I bet he still has the check. He for one will be a lot freer after the business of check returning goes away. What a sensible idea.
It is completely easy to autopay regular bills. Why write a check and buy stamps? Paying bills is a friggin chore. Sign up for autopay for your electric bill, your gas bill, your mortgage, your car insurance, your doctor and dental bills (those go onto your credit card which you pay in full every month, of course, get those free airline miles) your child support, your loan payments. You can't autopay when you buy a used lawn mower at the garage sale down the block, or for your kid's piano lesson, but after awhile you'll be like me and realize you don't even remember the last time you ordered checks and there are still 150 in the box of 200.
Grant Erwin
||> Karl ||>
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|| ||Oh, yeah, Karl! Seems the banks know where to get the money as they know ||WHO has some... certainly not the guy who wrote the bad check! SOMEBODY has ||to pay ||and the banks are gonna get THEIRS one way or anohter....
Well, they aren't in it for charitable reasons. I've no love lost for banks, but they serve a purpose. Texas Parts Guy
What frost me is that they have skillfully taken the "float" out of your checks, but the delay in crediting deposits stays the same.
I have a view from a different angle. As I write this, I can look at the framed check on the wall that paid for the farm I live on. My great grandfather wrote it in 1892.
Or the one that paid for the first steam engine in our county.
And my favorite, the one that paid for the delivery of my sweet wife.
True story. My wife's grandfather was a banker. Until the day she died, his wife always claimed that bankers and banks were cheating skunks, never to be trusted. And she was the sweetest, nicest lady.
I think that's the wisdom of the ages talking there.
Jim
Of course, you've probably never had money removed from your account electronically without your permission. It's happened to me once and my wife once. So we will not use electronic bill pay. ERS
Yes, I head a story when the electronic deposit stuff was new. A large company sent the electronic deposits for a chuck of their payroll to one of the large local banks with a wrong digit somewhere. So, the bank's computer dutifully deducted the payroll amount from each employee's account, instead of making it a deposit. This amounted to thousands of employees bouncing checks! It was quite a to-do.
Jon
|| ||I have a view from a different angle. As I write this, I can look at ||the framed check on the wall that paid for the farm I live on. My ||great grandfather wrote it in 1892. || ||Or the one that paid for the first steam engine in our county. || ||And my favorite, the one that paid for the delivery of my sweet wife.
Mail-order bride, eh? Texas Parts Guy
||On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:54:21 -0700, Grant Erwin || wrote: || ||>Ken Sterling wrote: ||>
||>> Sorry for off topic but I just have to vent a little.... Just did a ||>> little reading on this new law (for the banks) concerning everyones ||>> checking account. Are we nuts for letting this get through? Can we ||>> do something about getting it repealed? Some reading: ||>>
||>Jeez, I haven't gotten checks back in YEARS. I do all my banking at a ||>credit union, and for the most part I pay everything from automatic deduction. ||>I only write about 7 or 8 checks a year. Credit unions typically make you use ||>the kind of checks where you get a sort of "carbon copy" and that is your ||>written history. Credit unions also have MUCH lower (in many cases zero) fees ||>and are MUCH less obnoxious to deal with. I have no idea why anyone puts up ||>with banks anymore, unless you are lucky enough to live in a place where they ||>still have small independent well-run banks. ||>
||>My dad (in his mid-80s) has about 4 filing cabinets full of old returned checks. ||>I bet no one has ever asked him to prove he made that car payment in 1951, but ||>by gum I bet he still has the check. He for one will be a lot freer after the ||>business of check returning goes away. What a sensible idea. ||>
||>It is completely easy to autopay regular bills. Why write a check and buy ||>stamps? Paying bills is a friggin chore. Sign up for autopay for your electric ||>bill, your gas bill, your mortgage, your car insurance, your doctor and dental ||>bills (those go onto your credit card which you pay in full every month, of ||>course, get those free airline miles) your child support, your loan payments. ||>You can't autopay when you buy a used lawn mower at the garage sale down the ||>block, or for your kid's piano lesson, but after awhile you'll be like me and ||>realize you don't even remember the last time you ordered checks and there ||>are still 150 in the box of 200. ||>
||>Grant Erwin ||Of course, you've probably never had money removed from your account ||electronically without your permission. It's happened to me once and ||my wife once. So we will not use electronic bill pay. ||ERS
I use it for utilities and small, predictable recurring expenses for which it's a PITA to write a check. They also draw from an account in which I keep a minimal balance. When my exposure gets more than it should, I move some into savings. Texas Parts Guy
Same here. My credit union maintains an electronic image of checks (scanned, both sides) that I can see online. I don't know if they are legally equivalent to the traditional canceled check.
-Ron
snip
I don't know, Grant - I guess I'm a little ol' fashioned. I read the information on my posted link - and absorbed this: Your original check is destroyed, somewhere along the line, by a bank that creates a digital image. If you send me a check for $80 and I forge it to read $800, I get my 800, your check is destroyed after a digital image is created - but the digital image will not let you see the "fussing" around with the numbers, signatures, etc. "Not legal proof as forgery cannot be determined from a digital printout"...The paper check and the digital image possibly can BOTH be paid, thereby taking twice the amount from your account - and you can be "re-credited" only if you have a printout of the digital image which your bank charges you for - and the liability is only up to $2500. (and 10 day time limit - and you get your statement every 30 days). The bank can (will) charge you whatever they want for each printout of the digital image of your check. I feel that they already have my paper check - why digitize it, destroy the original, make a printout of the digital image, and then charge me for the printout - why not just send me my damn check in the first place? I *don't* and never have written a check that didn't have funds in place to cover it. I know a lot of people do, and the banks are saying they are going to make millions from bounced check charges - because lots of people do this and the banks know this and want to cash in on that fact (part of the reason this law was passed). As far as electronic transfers, pay-by-phone, direct deposit, etc., the world can stuff all that BS where the sun don't shine. Guys I worked with got direct deposit, and one of the guys was getting another guys paycheck put in his account. To correct it, they took out incorrect amounts - three friggin' times. Took months to get it straightened out - sure, they reimbursed them for the bounced check fees - and I'm sure the people that got the rubber checks really gave a $hit about *that*. /sarcasm on/The people doing the keypunching/scanning/ transferring are probably making $1,000,000 a year, full benefits, only work a 3 hour day, and strive to do the best possible job they can so there absolutely cannot be any errors/mistakes to anyones accounts by taking out too much money, etc /sarcasm off/. C'mon, Grant - maybe you've never had a problem with your system - but I know there are thousands of problems out there - and I sure as hell don't need *another* job of straightening out some other peoples errors. I reconcile to the penny every month of all my accounts to keep on top of things - and I simply don't want to release control, not to mention that it is now legal for the banks along the "chain" to glean info from your check image and create a database - you know, like Grant buys his electric dryers from Lowes or Home Depot and is willing to pay so/so much for it -- or that you have a kid in a certain college, and a semester costs you so much and his account number is soso, or the check to the Feds to pay taxes will let them glean the SS# from your "digital image" (even though I realize my SS# is probably already "out there" in numerous places), etc., etc.. Sorry, I just don't want to be a part of it and am considering, seriously, closing the checking accounts and paying everything by money order. Ken.
The banks are so powerful now - being able to charge any percentage they want to balance their books and now this.
How can I prove using the stamps and seals on the back of the checks.
Yes I have used previous checks to prove payments and more importantly deposits. A human keys in the amounts and then the numbers are printed on the check itself.
I have had checks extracting more money and less money. Deposits that didn't put in the correct amount. The creditor really understands the issue when you show their bank accepted the deposit on this date and the bank transfered on another.
Martin
I had a check deposit then the next day (nights really) withdraw the whole amount and a third day deposit less than wanted/expected and then extraction night and then finally the correct paycheck.
A transaction a tape or night really sucks. And the companies only can take out what they put in. They can't do a $10.00 offset extraction. So they bounce checks because they didn't want to wait to take $10 from my check the next payday. It almost took that long!
Martin
I've also seen a case where the Shell oil company used the same debit card transaction twice, 6 months apart. Nearest I can figure is that they use tapes to send the data and forgot to erase one.
The scary part was that, although my account was credited, the bank was unconcerned that it was a repeat transaction. I called Shell and was dissapointed that they were not interested in pursuing it either. I would have thought that both would have wanted to chase down the other people that were similarly affected.
Bringing this on topic for metalworking...... Sorry, can't.
Daniel
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