OT: Alarm system motion detector

They may have cleaned up their act since he left. The Simplex-Grinnell division seems to be back in somewhat working order after a period of prolonged chaos and incompetence.

If they are dual technology sensors they combine passive infrared with microwave detection.

What you REALLY want is fewer breakins. That means activating something BEFORE the breakin. Maybe put a screen door on the outside of the door they come thru, that turns on lights and sound effects when they open that, while your security perimeter is still unbroken.

Tom

If you are interested in seeing who is entering, theres an inexpensive computer software program called "GOTCHA" that will record pictures on your computer whenever the image changes. It was originally designed to identify whoever entered an area to access some guy's computer.

Jerry

Gunner,

I don't have any DSC stuff, I handle Ademco, and Napco (under protest!) DSC never made much inroads on the east coast.

Tony

I have had an excellent alarm system for two years now. It is called a PowerMax and I think the company that makes it is called Viewsonic. I purchased it for $199 from homesecuritystore.com

I love it because it is wireless and was so super easy to install.

T> > A couple of things you can do...Can you move the motion detectors where

Nope! they use some strange combination of contacts including a switch on the cover that alerts ADT even with the system is disarmed that a cover is off.

You betcha'!

Sigh...most PIR detectors have a parabolic mirror element with multiple segments in multiple aiming paths. An infrared detector located at the focal point monitors the sum of the incoming infrared. (or a segmented lens with the detector element facing forwards)

This makes the detector to have detection "fingers"....multple narrow "alleys" that the detector looks down. A moving heat source when passing through one of these "alleys", will spike the incoming infrared..and the detector will trip.

Hold your hand over your desk, with your fingers spread. Your fingers are the sensitive zones. Now holding a lit match...pass the burning match under your fingers. Notice the pain occurs only when the match passes under the sensitive zone ?

PIR detectors have multiple zones stacked in multiple angles below horizontal so they may be mounted above normal furniture etc.

Hold your hand out again, fingers spread. Now hold your other hand below it..fingers spread, and pointing downwards at a 45' angle. We have just added another layer of detection zones. Call in the wife, have her add her hands, both with spread fingers and pointing even farther down. Notice the area is still covered by alleys..but they start making a rather complex fence. But remember..few PIRS look straight down..so most have a dead zone below them..and hugging the wall may defeat detection, directly below the unit.

Something to also consider as you ice your fingers from the match test..if you had moved the burning match towards and away from your hand BETWEEN the fingers...you have dead zones where nothing is detected until you get close to your hand. So when orienting a PIR device..it should be setup so an intruder has to cross the fingers, rather than moving towards or away the unit.

There are many units with lens arraignments specifically designed to look in only one or several directions and angles. If you have pets for example..a unit mounted in a hallway..with NO downward looking zones prevents the mogs from tripping the unit.

Some are designed to look in a 360' circle and are to be mounted in the ceiling in the center of the room, and so forth.

There are some issues with PIR, besides the dead spots between the detection alleys. The #1 is the Mouse/Elephant Effect. The unit as we know..is sensitive to sudden changes in detected IR sources. This means it will detect a mouse at xx inches, or an elephant at .xx miles.

Aiming a PIR unit at an area that has BIG moving heat sources in the distance..outside for example will cause accidental trips .

The other issue with PIR is and this is less common with newer units with better detection circuitry..is environmental masking. If the unit is looking at a wall that is 98.6F..it means each finger is receiving a heat signature the same as a human body. No detection unit can operated without false trips if it is only sensitive to a single "temperature", so internal temperature compensation circuits will change the sensitivity of the unit as the rooms temperature..or the background temp changes and over a time period..constantly.

Remember...our detection fingers are looking at walls and floors. As they change temperature constantly through out the day and night. Lets say its in a steel building..and the ambient is 80F. One wall is 120F because the sun is shining on it. Suddenly a cloud passes..and that wall is no longer being heated. If there were no time/temp compensation circuity..the walls sudden cooling would generate an alarm as the detector would suddenly see a change in its input. And another alarm would occur the moment the cloud passed and the sun heated the wall again.

The 3rd issue is the lack of sensitivity as the ambient temperature climbs..overloading the detector. Now it takes an elephant at xx inches to trigger the unit. Oddly enough..something cold can now trigger the unit..as its Below ambient..and the detector sees a negative spike

PIRs are NOT universal units you can stick up anyplace and expect them to A. Work Every time, and B. Not trip by accident.

Some thought in placement must be used when installing them. Unfortunately..Ive seen far too many lazy installers stick em up whily nilly and then leave. The major alarm companies tend to be the worst offenders for this. Frankly..they want the bucks far more than they care about providing you with a decent detection system.

And remember folks..a burglar alarm system has NO protection value. It will NOT protect you from intruders. It will only detect them. Period. End Program. Full Stop. Next time an alarm co. sales droid comes calling..ask for a written guarentee that their system will protect your goods. Chuckle...watch em panic.

Only the Deterent of getting detected and caught keeps the bad guys away. And if they know that the cops are 45 minutes away..they can be in and out long before anyone shows up. Gun and pawn shops are examples of high security, often with multiple alarms by multiple companies. (eggs in one basket is frowned on in such) and yet a band of bad guys who steal a truck, ram the front of the business and make off with a ton of Stuff can get away, unless other provisions are made..ram proof store fronts, lots of steel and concrete..etc.

Gunner "Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown

Welllllll...some do..most do not.

There are hybrid detectors that use two discrete technolgies..PIR (passive infrared) and Microwave are the most common examples.

You may get a trip from the far far more sensitive Microwave detector side, and not a PIR trip..so the unit does not trip.

These are good for things like warehouses with birds, as an example

Gunner

"Considering the events of recent years, the world has a long way to go to regain its credibility and reputation with the US." unknown

Alarm systems by S&W? Doesn't get better than that!

Harold

why not have them add a door sensor somewhere (e.g. bathroom door) and then use an electromagnet to close it (leaving hte door open) then you can unpower the electromagnet when you want to trigger the alarm

Keeping the bad guys out is the best choice and the only choice as far as residential security is concerned. I once had a prospective client who came home with his family and found his home broken into and many items missing. A sales person from Honeywell had quoted him a very low price by using sensors under carpets and a few PIR detectors (my quote was much higher) but I still got the contract. I asked him if he actually thought it was a good idea to have someone creeping around his house with the wife and children present and then setting off a noisey alarm vs. setting off the alarm before they had a chance to enter. If you want security you have to guard all the openings.

On the other hand I always asked commercial customers if they wanted an audible or inaudible alarm (better chance of catching the jerks).

Dennis in nca

Sounds like you are trapped in what is known as "the piss poor triad", Alarm, Security Force and Law Enforcement. Remove any one (1) of the "piss poor" elements and the problem will go away.

Tom: We've already established that your problem is ADT themselves. If you have told them that there are constant break-ins at the building, and they can't figure out where they are getting in, and how to detect them either before or after they get in, it's time to fire them and get in another security company. While they have some real smart people at the large security congloms, a lot of them are (to be charitable) not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier.

Not to mention that they overcharge on the monthly rates to cover the "Free" equipment and "Free" service, and they don't drop the rates when the contract is fulfilled - TANSTAAFL.

Does the alarm have supervised arm/disarm? That'll pinpoint it if it's an inside job, because the alarm company will have a record of who armed or disarmed the system - and when. Often, the building fire/theft insurance company will insist on supervision.

The problem is, if you have ADT put in the panel they use proprietary crap that only they can program, or monitor. You have to rip out the panel and start over - which is probably a good thing.

Serious suggestion: Go get one or two TV cameras or Webcams, installed on a weekend when you're alone, and aim one of the cameras at that refrigerator. Borrow a time-lapse VCR or use a video capture card in a PC.

Or for a more permanent solution that (if you have a highspeed connection at the shop and at home) you can watch from home, go down to Costco and pick up their security system for about a grand. One color monitor with a quad switcher and a DVR hard-drive recorder with internet interface, and four cameras. Anything moves, and it starts recording every frame.

Hell, you could have a raccoon living in the neighborhood that figured out how to get inside the shop and raid the breakroom fridge. That would explain why the PIR/MW motion sensors are never tripped, it's under the size/mass threshhold.

If nothing else, the footage you get would certainly qualify for entry at America's Funniest Home Videos...

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You just explained why I can sneak past the detectors when the shop temp is very high...and it gets VERY hot in here with everything closed-up, even with 10 hp of vent fans going. I had to go in today and show some stuff to a potential customer and I wish I had a video of me "sweeping" the plant with my 9mm Springfield...scared the crap out of the cat. No, I didn't have to smell Hoppies #9 when I got home.

I'll try an IR source and a fan ainside nd put up some motion detector lights up outside with some type of noise maker that lets the thieves know they have been "seen" before they break in.

I'm a Springfield Armory fan as of late although my S&W Mod. 19 can thread a needle.

Exactly! See why I ask these questions?

I talked to one of my engineer's son, a cop, about video and he said: "Great Idea! Just show the video to the inner-city Cleveland cops of some black men breaking in to your ghetto plant's refrigerators for food and the cops will run right out and arrest a bunch of them in a city-wide dragnet."