OT Are taxes killing us financially?

you may not be a typical taxpayer. there's also no rule that says you can't send in more than what is required, so feel free to pony up another 4% (or more) if it makes you happy.

Especially since they were not even paying this much, as a percentage of their total income.

Marginal tax rate != average tax rate.

Exactly. I want to live in a stable society, which, as I realize, costs money.

i

So Ig, how much do you make?

Heh, you can always pay MY taxes.... or better yet, feed my cats/pay the vet bill.... holy shit....

Eat the cats, screw the vet, and you'll have some steroid-free meals and save money to pay your taxes, eh?

There's always a solution. (Tastes like chicken...)

Seem like everything "tastes like chicken".... people, snakes, dogs.....

I don't mind paying taxes. I do mind, tho, that my taxes are used, directly and indirectly, to f*ck me in the ass. I think Congressional seats should be filled just like we fill jury boxes: Bang, you get a letter in the mail, Dear Citizen: For the next 4 years you will be Senator of NYS.... please report to.....

Couldn't be any worse -- reminds me of monkeys picking stocks better than effingStockbrokers

Squirrel tastes more like turkey. And 'possum, if you use your imagination, is a little like pork. Javelina tastes more like lamb.

Limit campaign spending like the Brits so. That would fix it.

Sounds like a good plan except nobody would want the puppies...

China hasn't foreclosed yet.

Hope This Helps! Rich

"Ignoramus29973" wrote in message news:YPidnZyZXo4tzRfQnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com...

Do you have a single doubt that no matter WHAT the tax rate our government will squander it and MORE? You do know that you CAN volunteer to pay more? Just send an anonymous check every month. (they will spend that and charge your kid's "credit card" thousands of times that, plus interest.)

I once had a dog that would eat all his food and beg for more. I felt sorry and kept giving him more and more food figuring that he would be satisfied and happy. Guess what? He was nasty, got really, really fat and DIED A HORRIBLE DEATH! ..and never WAS satisfied. So, the next dog got fed according to his absolute needs and was HAPPY, athletic and long-lived. (not a true story, I know better than to over-feed stupid animals...but some people don't)

Do you want to kill the dog? It sure sounds that way! I think your view is naive. Do you have a dog?

========== You are to be congratulated for asking good questions and thinking logically. Unfortunately in this NG the general result of this is flames, flames and more flames.

I do however suggest that your tax rate is higher, possibly much higher than you are assuming. Sales taxes are above

10% in several areas, real estate taxes are being raised to offset the drop in valuation [The ex mayor of Miami who was just recalled will explain the logic of this] and many fees such as vehicle registration are being steeply increased.

The basic cause seems to be wages/benefits and other sources of apparent income have been falling for at least a generation, the housing and dot com stock bubbles have burst, most pension/retirement assets including 401ks have evaporated, and huge numbers of people are now either unemployed or underemployed, given their skill levels and previous employment.

Because of the shift to the income and sales tax for a major portion of revenue at all levels of government, the total revenues have also steeply dropped, even as the demands for safety net services has soared. This funding shortfall is being greatly exacerbated by insulated/isolated politicians and senior civil servants living in their own dream world and their continued denial of any foundational change in the US economy and/or shortage of funding. IMNSHO two critical factors are the disappearance/distruction of domestic high value added manufacturing and the rapid rise of a permanent under class of tax consumers. For an example of this see news items on Detroit population exodus. No city or country can survive with this high a percentage of non contributors.

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-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Ig, I don't know if you are self employed, but I start with 15.2% for SS and Medicare. Then add on 16%, then if you live in a state that taxes say 6%. That adds to 37.2% leaving you 62.8%. Now I go to the store and I have 7% sales tax. But that's 7% of the 62.8% I have left, that's 11.1% of the 100% I started with, so now my 62.8% becomes 51.7%. And sometimes it's worse, look at taxes on your phone, cable bill, gasoline. And don't forget property taxes and fees you must pay to get any governmental action on a property. I think government can do with less. The did ok from 1776 to 1920 with a lot less. And built the strongest economic and military power on earth. Mikek

The Department of the Treasury welcomes donations. Just tell your accountant to pay the 16% bill on one check and include another check for 4%, marked "Donation". Then the IRS won't get confused.

technomaNge

========= Everyone could get wiped out by this proposal. Now where did I put that Sears catalog????

Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

I think a war surcharge tax would be a good idea. If we are going to get the debt down the two big ticket items have to be addressed; Medicare and Defense, and it's going to take a combination of cuts and taxes to do it. The military surcharge should cover current spending, plus repaying debt incurred from recent previous war efforts, health care for vets etc.

and even to a larger extent the railroads were heavenly

You left out the part about the monopoly that the railroads had on the farmers. They overcharged them for shipment of their crops to market. Deja voo all over again.....with the oil prices. A good start on tax reform is to bring back a high short term profits tax of about 35 percent on all short term gains under three months.

John

============ While this sounds appealing and plausible, the historical record does not totally support this assumption.

Two of the more important technologies for American growth/development have been communications and transportation.

Implementation of the US national telegraph network was heavily subsidized,

two areas of transportation, namely the canals, e.g. Erie, even to a larger extent the railroads were heavenly subsidized, albeit not directly with Federal funds, but with grants of public land. There was both direct payments for track laid for intercontinental links, and huge amounts of land ceded to the railroads by the Federal government, thus doing an end run around the constitutional requirement that all such transactions should be done only through the Treasury so these could be recorded and tracked.

The railroads later sold much of this "free" land to immigrant farmers, so realized a profit in two ways, first from the land sales, and then from the shipment of agricultural products. The huge [subsidized] expansion of the railroads directly supported the establishment and growth of the domestic US iron/steel industry [rails] and heavy industry [locomotive & rail car construction].

-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

Why would anyone do that? So you can get a free ride?

We currently have the lowest total taxes since 1950 or 1954, depending on how you count. That's ALL taxes -- federal, state, and local, based on the total receipts of all government entities in the US.

That's why we're running huge deficits. Ronnie Reagan was a good guy in many ways, but, as his budget director David Stockman has said many times somce, they had no idea what they were doing economically, or what the meaning is of the numbers they were dealing with. They were winging it on the basis of some cockeyed theories that had never been tested. Laffer himself said of the "Laffer Curve" that it was a theoretical device; he had no idea where the US actually stood on that curve. Now we know. We were on the portion that says less taxes equals less revenue. And now, thanks to them, cutting taxes has become our new religion.

Let us prey...

You've got it.

A major problem is that from at least the end of WWII in the US, $1.00 in additional governmental revenue has always been matched by $1.10 to $1.25 additional governmental spending at all levels. Very little was ever done to pay down existing debt or establish a "rainy day fund" or surplus for the down years which are sure to come.

IMNSHO until and unless Draconian spending and personnel caps are enacted, it is futile to try to tax our way out of the hole. The refusal by Congress to increase the national debt limit will operationally impose a balanced budget requirement by preventing any further increase in the national debt, although it does nothing about forcing the repayment of the existing c.14 trillion dollar debt.

-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).