OT Are taxes killing us financially?

My accountant just got back to me with "the number" of my taxes.
While I do have to make a substantial additional tax payment for 2010,
due to underpayment of estimated taxes during the year, I calculated that federal taxes are something like 16% of my gross income (not adjusted gross income).
However much I would like to save an extra buck, I cannot even REMOTELY begin to feel that this 16% amounts to a crushing financial burden for me.
In fact, I am asking, WTF is going on, the country runs a trillion dollar deficit, and yet the taxes are THIS low? What is wrong with this picture?
To suggest that changing 16% to, say, 20% would somehow make me unwilling to make money, is surely crazy. Whether I get 84 cents on every dollar earned, or just 80 cents, should have more or less no impact on me wanting to earn extra money.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ignoramus29973 wrote:

you may not be a typical taxpayer. there's also no rule that says you can't send in more than what is required, so feel free to pony up another 4% (or more) if it makes you happy.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Especially since they were not even paying this much, as a percentage of their total income.
Marginal tax rate != average tax rate.

Exactly. I want to live in a stable society, which, as I realize, costs money.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

So Ig, how much do you make?
Heh, you can always pay MY taxes.... or better yet, feed my cats/pay the vet bill.... holy shit....
--
EA
>
> i
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Eat the cats, screw the vet, and you'll have some steroid-free meals and save money to pay your taxes, eh?
There's always a solution. (Tastes like chicken...)
--
Ed Huntress



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Seem like everything "tastes like chicken".... people, snakes, dogs.....
I don't mind paying taxes. I do mind, tho, that my taxes are used, directly and indirectly, to fuck me in the ass. I think Congressional seats should be filled just like we fill jury boxes: Bang, you get a letter in the mail, Dear Citizen: For the next 4 years you will be Senator of NYS.... please report to.....
Couldn't be any worse -- reminds me of monkeys picking stocks better than effingStockbrokers
--
EA

>
> --
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Squirrel tastes more like turkey. And 'possum, if you use your imagination, is a little like pork. Javelina tastes more like lamb.
<urrrpp!>

Limit campaign spending like the Brits so. That would fix it.
--
Ed Huntress



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Sounds like a good plan except nobody would want the puppies...
--



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ed,
Kill kitties and eat them, last I knew that was a 4 year felony in my state. The vet is happily married. ;)
Wes
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

You must not have as many Chinese restaurants as we do. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress

> The vet is
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ignoramus29973 wrote:

China hasn't foreclosed yet.
Hope This Helps! Rich
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
message

Do you have a single doubt that no matter WHAT the tax rate our government will squander it and MORE? You do know that you CAN volunteer to pay more? Just send an anonymous check every month. (they will spend that and charge your kid's "credit card" thousands of times that, plus interest.)
I once had a dog that would eat all his food and beg for more. I felt sorry and kept giving him more and more food figuring that he would be satisfied and happy. Guess what? He was nasty, got really, really fat and DIED A HORRIBLE DEATH! ..and never WAS satisfied. So, the next dog got fed according to his absolute needs and was HAPPY, athletic and long-lived. (not a true story, I know better than to over-feed stupid animals...but some people don't)
Do you want to kill the dog? It sure sounds that way! I think your view is naive. Do you have a dog?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:57:36 -0500, Ignoramus29973

=========You are to be congratulated for asking good questions and thinking logically. Unfortunately in this NG the general result of this is flames, flames and more flames.
I do however suggest that your tax rate is higher, possibly much higher than you are assuming. Sales taxes are above 10% in several areas, real estate taxes are being raised to offset the drop in valuation [The ex mayor of Miami who was just recalled will explain the logic of this] and many fees such as vehicle registration are being steeply increased.
The basic cause seems to be wages/benefits and other sources of apparent income have been falling for at least a generation, the housing and dot com stock bubbles have burst, most pension/retirement assets including 401ks have evaporated, and huge numbers of people are now either unemployed or underemployed, given their skill levels and previous employment.
Because of the shift to the income and sales tax for a major portion of revenue at all levels of government, the total revenues have also steeply dropped, even as the demands for safety net services has soared. This funding shortfall is being greatly exacerbated by insulated/isolated politicians and senior civil servants living in their own dream world and their continued denial of any foundational change in the US economy and/or shortage of funding. IMNSHO two critical factors are the disappearance/distruction of domestic high value added manufacturing and the rapid rise of a permanent under class of tax consumers. For an example of this see news items on Detroit population exodus. No city or country can survive with this high a percentage of non contributors.
http://www.freep.com/article/20110323/COL06/103230448/Tom-Walsh-2010-census-may-be-final-thud-before-comeback?odyssey=mod |newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p {watch wrap and be sure to scan comments}
-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ig, I don't know if you are self employed, but I start with 15.2% for SS and Medicare. Then add on 16%, then if you live in a state that taxes say 6%. That adds to 37.2% leaving you 62.8%. Now I go to the store and I have 7% sales tax. But that's 7% of the 62.8% I have left, that's 11.1% of the 100% I started with, so now my 62.8% becomes 51.7%. And sometimes it's worse, look at taxes on your phone, cable bill, gasoline. And don't forget property taxes and fees you must pay to get any governmental action on a property. I think government can do with less. The did ok from 1776 to 1920 with a lot less. And built the strongest economic and military power on earth. Mikek
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:46:12 -0500, "amdx"
<snip>

===========While this sounds appealing and plausible, the historical record does not totally support this assumption.
Two of the more important technologies for American growth/development have been communications and transportation.
Implementation of the US national telegraph network was heavily subsidized, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Transcontinental_Telegraph http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/nonnenmacher.industry.telegraphic.us http://www.telegraph-history.org/transcontinental-telegraph/index.html and two areas of transportation, namely the canals, e.g. Erie, http://www.jstor.org/pss/2113882 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_turnpikes_and_canals_in_the_United_States and even to a larger extent the railroads were heavenly subsidized, albeit not directly with Federal funds, but with grants of public land. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Transcontinental_Railroad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkerboarding_%28land%29
There was both direct payments for track laid for intercontinental links, and huge amounts of land ceded to the railroads by the Federal government, thus doing an end run around the constitutional requirement that all such transactions should be done only through the Treasury so these could be recorded and tracked.
The railroads later sold much of this "free" land to immigrant farmers, so realized a profit in two ways, first from the land sales, and then from the shipment of agricultural products. The huge [subsidized] expansion of the railroads directly supported the establishment and growth of the domestic US iron/steel industry [rails] and heavy industry [locomotive & rail car construction].
-- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
F. George McDuffee wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_turnpikes_and_canals_in_the_United_States
You left out the part about the monopoly that the railroads had on the farmers. They overcharged them for shipment of their crops to market. Deja voo all over again.....with the oil prices. A good start on tax reform is to bring back a high short term profits tax of about 35 percent on all short term gains under three months.
John
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 03/23/2011 02:57 PM, Ignoramus29973 wrote:

The Department of the Treasury welcomes donations. Just tell your accountant to pay the 16% bill on one check and include another check for 4%, marked "Donation". Then the IRS won't get confused.
technomaNge
--


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Why would anyone do that? So you can get a free ride?
We currently have the lowest total taxes since 1950 or 1954, depending on how you count. That's ALL taxes -- federal, state, and local, based on the total receipts of all government entities in the US.
That's why we're running huge deficits. Ronnie Reagan was a good guy in many ways, but, as his budget director David Stockman has said many times somce, they had no idea what they were doing economically, or what the meaning is of the numbers they were dealing with. They were winging it on the basis of some cockeyed theories that had never been tested. Laffer himself said of the "Laffer Curve" that it was a theoretical device; he had no idea where the US actually stood on that curve. Now we know. We were on the portion that says less taxes equals less revenue. And now, thanks to them, cutting taxes has become our new religion.
Let us prey...
--
Ed Huntress



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ed Huntress wrote:

It's even worse than that, Ed. Because of the way it's been done, we have a real capital missallocation issue. Encouraging capital investments at the expense of labor is a very bad idea beyond a certain point. You end up with a shrinking number of qualified purchasers with the majority of new wealth transfering to those that don't consume what the earn. IOW, less economic activity, internally.
--
John R. Carroll




Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I have met a few rich (or at least well to do, say worth 5-10 mil or so) people. For the record, 1 million no longer qualifies as rich, in my eyes.
There is quite a few of them, who think that they would become better off, if they could reduce their taxes by a few extra bucks. "Starve the government", "fuck the poor", "I need the money" and all.
I believe this to be shortsighted. First, they are on the flat part of the utility curve, and extra money just does not add as much to their happiness.
Second, any rich person wants to a) preserve his capital and b) live in a stable society, in order to enjoy the capital and pass a part of it to his heirs.
Preserving capital is difficult, if deficits turn into inflation.
Similarly, living in a stable society, where their wealth would not be taken away or evaporate due to various social upheavals, etc, comes at a cost. Stable and competitive society is not possible if the government cannot keep expenses that are commensurate with the level of expenses that is needed to live in a stable environment, fund the military, education for working class, etc.
Lastly, "upward mobility", which is ability of people to become rich, has a flip side, which is a "down mobility". Quite often, rich people become poor, due to one mistake or another, or just loss of ability of their business to make a profit.
It sucks to become poorer, but it sucks much worse if this newly poor person cannot even find health insurance.
In light of this, for a rationally minded wealthy person, would gladly trade a few percent of their income in exchange for social stability, ability to find qualified workers, firm currency, and so on.
Warren Buffett is one of such rationally minded people.
i
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.