Are the NEC Seminars any good?

It really depends on who is giving the show.

How desparately do you need the write off? If you did not spend the money and paid the tax, would you have less money left over than if you did not go to the seminar? Moreover, on what basis can you write off such an expense? Is it required for your job or business?

Bill

-- Fermez le Bush

Put it this way, for every dollar I spend on the seminar, I will not have to give the feds 50 cents. So I either spend a dollar and get a seminar, or give the feds 50 cents and get nothing for up to $25,000.

| Salmon Egg wrote: |> On 9/23/06 9:53 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, |> " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com" wrote: |>

|> > On 23 Sep 2006 00:16:10 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@electrician2.com wrote: |> >

|> >> I am thinkingof attending one of the five day seminars that the NFPA is |> >> conducting. They cost about $1550 plus transportation that will come |> >> to about $4,000 for me since I live in Alaska. They have one day on |> >> NFPA 70E, three days on the 2005 NEC, and one day on hazardous |> >> locations. Anyway, I desparately need the tax write off and am |> >> thinking about Orlando or Hawaii. Any comments will be helpful. |> >

|> >

|> > It really depends on who is giving the show. |>

|> How desparately do you need the write off? If you did not spend the money |> and paid the tax, would you have less money left over than if you did not go |> to the seminar? Moreover, on what basis can you write off such an expense? |> Is it required for your job or business? |>

|> Bill |> -- Fermez le Bush | | Put it this way, for every dollar I spend on the seminar, I will not | have to give the feds 50 cents. So I either spend a dollar and get a | seminar, or give the feds 50 cents and get nothing for up to $25,000.

Which means if the seminar is worth at least 50 cents on the dollar paid, you come out ahead. And maybe just for being in Hawaii, it would be?

If you have a sharp pencil you can make deductions worth more than the tax rate would indicate. You have to eat and sleep anyway but if it is a deductible expense you do it with tax free money. Gerald is going to get his snowbird vacation in on Uncle Sam's dime. I would also be looking at the IAEIs southern section meeting. Last year it was in Naples Florida at the Beach Club

But I also questioned deductibility. On what basis is it deductible? In my day, continued education was not a satisfactory reason. The seminar would have to be attended as a condition of retaining a job. When my employer wanted me to attend, he would pay all the reasonable expenses and nothing would come out of my pocket.

Bill

-- Fermez le Bush

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:22:51 GMT Salmon Egg wrote: | On 9/24/06 7:12 AM, in article snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com, | " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com" wrote: | |> On 24 Sep 2006 08:06:09 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: |> |>> | Put it this way, for every dollar I spend on the seminar, I will not |>> | have to give the feds 50 cents. So I either spend a dollar and get a |>> | seminar, or give the feds 50 cents and get nothing for up to $25,000. |>> |>> Which means if the seminar is worth at least 50 cents on the dollar paid, |>> you come out ahead. And maybe just for being in Hawaii, it would be? |> |> If you have a sharp pencil you can make deductions worth more than the |> tax rate would indicate. You have to eat and sleep anyway but if it is |> a deductible expense you do it with tax free money. Gerald is going to |> get his snowbird vacation in on Uncle Sam's dime. I would also be |> looking at the IAEIs southern section meeting. Last year it was in |> Naples Florida at the Beach Club | | But I also questioned deductibility. On what basis is it deductible? In my | day, continued education was not a satisfactory reason. The seminar would | have to be attended as a condition of retaining a job. When my employer | wanted me to attend, he would pay all the reasonable expenses and nothing | would come out of my pocket.

Your employer deducts it as a cost of doing business. His profit is what is ultimately taxed, and that is generally revenue minus costs.

This avoids the question.

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com was talking about his deductibility not his employer's. Unless he is self employed, the cost is not deductible unless he is required to attend as a condition of retaining the employment.

Bill

-- Fermez le Bush

Exactly, but your employer did deduct your expenses, all of them. When you are self employed this goes on a schedule C. The schedule C rules are different than the regular 1040 for a "W2" employee. The car expenses are "first dollar" too not the 2106 rule about eating a percentage of your AGI.. There is a difference between keeping your W2 job and needs of your

Bingo! So is our Alaska "Electrician".

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:33:09 GMT Salmon Egg wrote: | On 9/24/06 1:40 PM, in article snipped-for-privacy@news1.newsguy.com, | " snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net" wrote: | |> | But I also questioned deductibility. On what basis is it deductible? In my |> | day, continued education was not a satisfactory reason. The seminar would |> | have to be attended as a condition of retaining a job. When my employer |> | wanted me to attend, he would pay all the reasonable expenses and nothing |> | would come out of my pocket. |> |> Your employer deducts it as a cost of doing business. His profit is what |> is ultimately taxed, and that is generally revenue minus costs. | | This avoids the question. | | snipped-for-privacy@aol.com was talking about his deductibility not his employer's. | Unless he is self employed, the cost is not deductible unless he is required | to attend as a condition of retaining the employment.

I wasn't trying to answer the question. I was trying to make it clear deductiblity can be an issue either way. It's deductible for someone, if it is required. Personally, I think some amount of it should be required as part of retaining a license. And that should be deductible.

There are situations where a business expense is not deductible by anyone.

For example, I am way past normal retirement age. I have no business. Any consulting I do is scarce. Nevertheless, I just paid California $120 to renew my PE license just in case I would need it again. As far as I can tell, that is not federally deductible unless I actually get some income based upon having the license.

In my case, I take a standard deduction, but if I had many deductible expenses, I do not think it would be deductible. My membership in professional societies may also not be deductible.

Bill

-- Fermez le Bush

On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 05:58:56 GMT Salmon Egg wrote: | On 9/24/06 8:16 PM, in article snipped-for-privacy@news1.newsguy.com, | " snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net" wrote: | |> I wasn't trying to answer the question. I was trying to make it clear |> deductiblity can be an issue either way. It's deductible for someone, |> if it is required. Personally, I think some amount of it should be |> required as part of retaining a license. And that should be deductible. | | There are situations where a business expense is not deductible by anyone.

But there are also plenty of ways to make sure it is.

| For example, I am way past normal retirement age. I have no business. Any | consulting I do is scarce. Nevertheless, I just paid California $120 to | renew my PE license just in case I would need it again. As far as I can | tell, that is not federally deductible unless I actually get some income | based upon having the license.

So do enough side consulting to make up for it. You may also be able to deduct the license if you do charitable consulting of a nature that needs a licened professional engineer.

| In my case, I take a standard deduction, but if I had many deductible | expenses, I do not think it would be deductible. My membership in | professional societies may also not be deductible.

That depends on the professional society. Usually those are not.

You should work out your taxes all different ways to see which way gives you the lowest tax obligation. The only reason many accountants don't do this is because they have enough experience to know what way works best. Tax processing software can routinely do this for you if you are willing to provide the necessary info for all the electable forms.

Education needed to maintain your present skill/knowledge level routinely has always been deductible. If you are already "in the business" then a class on the latest technology or regulations would be deductible. If you are taking the class with the idea of getting into the business, it would not be a personal deduction. If a ongoing business pays for it, it might be considered an "investment" that could be depreciated over time

One of the advantages of a BIG organization is that the IRS lets them get away with writing off magazine subscriptions, "seminars" etc. They (the IRS) tends to draw the line when the CEO spends excessive company funds in decorating the office with expensive art.