OT Chevy Volt

I got this in my e-mail today from one of the people I now who send jokes rather then bothers to write.
I initially was going to delete it but after reading it I wondered.
Is there any accuracy in this ?
------------------------ Cost to operate a Chevy Volt
Eric Bolling (Fox Business Channel's Follow the Money) test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors.
For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.
Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9 gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours.
In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery hold 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery.
The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh.
16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery.
$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.
Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine only that gets 32 mpg.
$3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car cost about $15,000 while the Volt costs $46,000.........
-----------------------------------
-- Cheers,
John B.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Well, for starters, $1.16 per kWh? Where does this guy live? According to the Department of Energy: http://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=electricity_factors_affecting_prices
The three States with the highest average price of electricity in 2010 were: Hawaii (25.12 per kWh) Connecticut (17.39 per kWh) New York (16.31 per kWh)
Those with the lowest average prices in 2010 were: Wyoming (6.20 per kWh) Idaho (6.54 per kWh) Kentucky (6.75 per kWh)
So, with a blatant fallacy like that, I would just line a birdcage with the rest of the "article."
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
news:ce9e907c-6d1b-4531-9f5d-

After separating the fixed and proportional costs, I pay $0.159 per KWH. If I simply divide the bill by the consumption it looks like $0.25. I can run a gas generator for considerably less than $1.16 / KWH. http://www.p3international.com/products/p4460.html
Much more significant is the cost of the battery divided by its capacity times cycle life, to give dollars per KWH. With lead-acids, solar power doesn't break even for me if the panels are free.
jsw
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 11:36:03 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

I wonder how far a quiet li'l Honda EU generator would take an EV. The Hondas run 8+ hours per tank of gas. Pop that puppy in the trunk, route the exhaust out the bottom/back, and drive nonstop to Vegas from anywhere! (Well, not from Australia.)
-- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Easier just to drive a Honda automobile.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
I wonder how far a quiet li'l Honda EU generator would take an EV. The Hondas run 8+ hours per tank of gas. Pop that puppy in the trunk, route the exhaust out the bottom/back, and drive nonstop to Vegas from anywhere! (Well, not from Australia.)
-- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote

To put this in numerical perspective, a 3KW generator needs a 5HP engine. Ever drive a 40HP Volkswagen on long trips?
I had a 1978 Accord with 68 HP (51KW) http://www.mpgomatic.com/2007/10/16/honda-accord-gas-mileage-1978-2007 /
It really would give the mileage shown on the graph. I averaged 36 to 38 locally and up to 44 on a trip from NH to Georgia. I was satisfied with its horsepower but it wouldn't sell now.
jsw
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 20:50:13 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

I seem to have missed that 3KV figure/requirement, but Honda does make a 3000EU...

I have been in VW bugs half a dozen times in my life, never for more than ten minutes. I took a trip across the Oakland(?) Bay Bridge in 1968 in a VW ban when there were 40mph gusts at 90 degrees to us. We were anywhere from 30-45 degrees tilted the whole trip across. It scared the absolute crap out of me. I have never been in another VW van since then and don't intend to. Oh, I was hit by a low flying VW bug in '90 or so. It gave me a nastyass whiplash, dented my nose and forehead (even with the seatbelt on) and I've never forgiven the damned things or the people who drive VWs. They're just OFF. Feh!
So, no. I've never been in any VW for a long trip. But the gearing and torque are totally different in an EV.

Accords have always been spirited little beauts. Nice cars, Honda. I wouldn't buy a used one, though. Once they start on the downhill slide, they go like a rockslide.
-- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

3KW is not a requirement, it shows how completely inadequate a portable generator is for the task.
Logical analysis isn't one of your strong points, is it?
jsw
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:44:39 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

I don't have the figures for the vehicle in front of me. <shrug>

KMA,H.
-- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Larry Jaques wrote:

Won't quite work. The typical US passenger car (presumably a smaller model) takes somewhere between 12 - 15 Hp to propel it at highway speed. Wind resistance goes up at the cube of speed, so slowing down even a little helps a lot. Our university did an extended-range hybrid some years ago with an 18-HP v-twin B&S lawnmower engine. The team leader installed electronic fuel injection on the engine to clean it up and reduce fuel consumption. The car was a donated Ford Taurus station wagon with manual transmission. After trying to figure out how to make a parallel hybrid for a while, they gave up and made it a serial hybrid, with the engine electrically coupled to the battery bus. The rules required 40 mile range on electric only, and able to run 40 MPH, I think, on the gas engine. I would have liked to get more test data on it, but they did achieve those requirements.
So, a little gas generator in the 2 - 3 KW class won't do it. Somewhere around 15 KW is going to be needed for continuous highway driving, assuming some losses here and there.
Of course, Honda with the Civic and Insight hybrids and Toyota with the Prius and clones have a BUNCH of tricks to help out. The use 0W5 oil for low engine losses, low rolling resistance tires, plastic panels under the entire car to cut wind drag on the underside, and so on.
The original 2-seat Insight got GREAT gas mileage with a 950 CC 3-cyl engine. I saw one on eBay that had a lifetime average of 87 MPG over 113K miles. They just photographed the dashboard display. So, IT CAN be done!
Jon
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Ah, I believe that's the square of speed, Jon:
D = Cd pV^2A/2
(Drag equals coefficient of drag times gas density times velocity squared times frontal area over two)
Where the cube factor comes into play is in the *power* required as velocity increases. This is because you're moving farther in a given amount of time, which requires more work in that amount of time. So the drag is the relative velocities squared, and you multiply that result by the relative rate of doing work, and you wind up with a cube relationship.
I'm never very good at explaining these things. I hope that gets through the static.
An example: Neglecting other forms of drag, if a car requires 10 hp at 40 mph, it will require 80 hp at 80 mph.
--
Ed Huntress

> slowing down
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ed Huntress wrote:

Whoops, you're right!
Jon
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

That is a major factor that the mfgrs, media, politicians, and greenie weenies seem to be ignoring.
According to http://www.gavinshoebridge.com/electric-car-conversion/electric-car-batteries-and-their-lifespans /
Avg battery lifespan in electric vehicle applications Normal Car Starting Batteries: 3-12 months Marine Batteries: 1-6 years Golf Cart Batteries: 2-7 years AGM Deep Cycle: 4-7 years Gelled Deep Cycle: 2-5 years Ni-Cad Batteries: 1-20 years Ni-MH Batteries: 2-10 years LiFePO4 Batteries: 6-10 years
Nissan's cost for their Leaf elec car battery is $15,600 and this is not expected to come down. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703735804575536242934528502.html So people like me who keep their cars for longer than this (I've had my Toyota PU for 28 years and the Ford Explorer for 19) would have this major replacement cost to look forward to again and again. Art
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Artemus wrote:

There is a cottage industry springing up with guys selling battery rebuilding services and also the parts and instructions to rebuild your OWN hybrid batteries for WAYY less than the factory rebuilds. In many cases you can fix a seriously bad battery by replacing 2 to 5 cells for about $100 - 150. So, when the extended battery warranty runs out, there are options besides a VERY expensive total replacement.
Jon
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2/26/2012 7:18 AM, John B. wrote:

No, there is not.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/chevyvolt.asp
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 2/26/2012 11:53 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

Since when the battery is run down it runs on the gas engine, yes, it can go cross country just like any IC vehicle.
But the Volt is not designed for x-country use. It is optimised for the large number of Americans who commute a dozen miles or so daily, who can charge it during off peak hours every night, but still offers a back-up plan so you never suffer the inability to go when you need to regardless of the charging time.
OH yeah, you can fit it with a Gun rack too. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-57383535/yes-you-can-put-a-gun-rack-in-a-volt /

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 18:19:57 -0500, Stuart Wheaton

68% of Americans commute less than 15 miles one-way to work:
http://www.bts.gov/publications/omnistats/volume_03_issue_04/html/figure_02.html
In other words, the vast majority of those who drive to work can cover their trips on electricity only, with an all-electric (Nissan Leaf) or a plug-in hybrid (Chevy Volt).
--
Ed Huntress
>
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

And GummyBear proves that at last, he has lost what little was left of his decrepit mind.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Stuart Wheaton wrote:

First, you DON'T have to stop and charge the thing via electricity before getting going again. You fill the gas tank and go. So, that part WAS false.
The electric rates cited were really bogus for anyplace in the continental US. Maybe if you are on an island with only Diesel- generated power from barged-in fuel, maybe. So, those cost calcs were bogus.
But, MUCH of the rest of that article WAS true. Even the snopes rebuttal says basically you are NOT SUPPOSED to drive it long distances. Well, you can, but it just isn't efficient that way. The electric range is about what others have reported from test drives.
Jon
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I pay about 7 cents per KwH.
i

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.