Are electric cars more energy efficient?

I was thinking about electric cars today.
An internal combustion car, burns fuel inside cylinders and produces energy according to Carnot cycle. Say, it makes 28% of energy from the
total BTU of fuel that it burns.
Compare it with an electric car. A coal electric power station operates at efficiency of 33% (Wikipedia).
Then 10% of this is lost in power distribution.
More lost in stepping down line voltage to 220 volts.
Further, more is lost in a battery charger.
Then more is lost in the car battery.
Then more heat is lost in motor windings and power semiconductors.
This is probably by far less efficient than internal combustion an distribution of gasoline!
And how is it going to reduce CO2 emissions, if more CO2 needs to be burned as coal than would come from gasoline?
i
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On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:08:16 -0500, Ignoramus6950

Ask rocket scientist Obama. He Hopes he can Change the laws of Physics. Dave
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On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:08:16 -0500, Ignoramus6950

The only way it really "saves" anything is with hydro power, solar, wind, or atomic. Possibly Natural gas.
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snipped-for-privacy@wonderfulfriendshipisgood.com says...

Energy is also lost transporting fuel to power plants and preparing it for use.

Worrying about breathing is only an issue if you live in Los Angeles-- one of these days some terrorist with a nuke is going to put an end to that problem. The major emission that anybody who doesn't live in Los Angeles worries about is CO2 and fixed power plants don't emit any less of that than mobile ones, it's part of the basic chemistry of combustion.
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On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 05:52:17 -0400, "J. Clarke"

Tell that to anyone living downwind of the Ohio Valley. The crud from the coalfired stations, pumped out through high stacks, comes to earth in inversions - smogging out areas like central Ontario every summer.
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And HYDROcarbons burn less carbon that pure carbons, a.k.a. coal.
That's because hydrocarbons also burn hydrogen.
So, what emits less carbon, a coal fires power station transmitting power, used to charge batteries, or a hydrocarbon burning carm is not obvious.
i
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In your analysis, you need to cover the full lifecycle cost, which includes making the car in the first place. Cars only last on average seven years, so making them is a major component of both cost and carbon impact. Batteries in particular are expensive to make, don't have a very large capacity compared to a gas tank, and don't last all that long.
As others have pointed out, gasoline engines in cars are maybe 20% efficient, whereas coal fired power plants are more like 40%, coalpile to bussbar, but transmission and battery inefficiency eat much of that advantage up. Batteries are not all that efficient at storing energy.
The basic advantage of a hybrid is that the battery handles the pulse loads, like accelerating into traffic, so the gas engine can be sized for cruise, and so can be smaller (about one half) and operates nearer to its optimum rpm and load.
Joe Gwinn
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I am a big believer in hybrids, as a matter of fact.
I am now seriously thinking about getting a small car, because I drive around a lot in my surplus business, and I hate to pay for the gas guzzling pickup truck when it is not necessary. A hybrid is definitely a very prominent possibility for me.
i
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 17:09:15 -0500, Ignoramus28574

The Honda Civic Hybrids get good reviews: -very- good gas mileage and don't feel like they're made of cardboard, unlike the leading hybrid from my favorite company. <sigh> I, too like hybrids and would have bought a hybrid Tundra if they'd made one back then. I'd much rather get better mileage than I'm getting for all the running around I do. I have heavy loads which need the V-8 only rarely, once a week or two. The Camrys have a hybrid now and it's $10k less than the Nissan Leaf and nearly $20k less than the Obama Motors Volt. I was less than thrilled to hear that my buddy doesn't like the ride and feel of his wife's 2011 Camry. "Cardboardy" he says.
-- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln
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On 6/27/2012 8:30 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

But if you buy a Volt, I get to pay for part of it! I drove one and thought it sucked. But I'm spoiled, a car should handle like my old RX-7 or the Honda CRX I had. Otherwise, might as well drive a truck.
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Larry Jaques wrote:

My daughter sheared off an 18" power pole with my last one and flipped it onto the roof, but walked away from it. It had a huge dent all the way to the engine block, but the doors still opened and closed perfectly. I was VERY impressed.
Jon
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wrote:

RE: civic?
-- Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. -- Abraham Lincoln
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If you are looking for a small car, I would consider a diesel Golf from VW. A friend of mine has one, and is very happy with it. It gets 40 or 50 mpg (if memory serves), and he gets ~600 miles to a tank. And the heating and air conditioner work. I bet it's a lot cheaper than a hybrid as well.
Joe Gwinn
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typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Diesel hybrids?
    I like the idea of a hybrid for those short, around town trips. (Of course, I live where such trips are more possible.) Let the electric motor handle the stop and go traffic, with the gas engine for when you can get up to speed.
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:23:29 -0400, Joseph Gwinn

What is the AVERAGE age of the north american automotive fleet?? As of June, 2012, the average age of an automobile is 11 years

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I went out and reassured my cars that they are all above average.
jsw
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2012 20:39:07 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"

mine are generally old enough to vote before they retire.
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wrote:

Just replaced my wife's 16 year old (1996) Mystique - daughter's boyfriend is driving it while he waits for insurance settlement on his stolen 2005 C300H. It was a replacement for her 22 year old (1988) New Yorker.
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typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    My first car was 15 years old when I bought it from Dad. (63 Fairlane) My second car was a year older - a 62 Falcon. Only it was ten years later, so it was a "classic".     Then I got a 10 year old Toyota, which I drove for eleven years.
    Sigh. I'll know when I get rich because I can afford Suggest Retail Price.
tschus pyotr
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
  Click to see the full signature.
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On Thu, 28 Jun 2012 09:45:44 -0700, pyotr filipivich

No, you'll know you're rich when you walk in to the Killing Room at the local Car Stealership and say "See this wad of Green Folding Cash I have here? I already have three other offers for identical vehicles - Forget the Sticker, what's your REAL price?"
--<< Bruce >>--
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