OT Chevy Volt

On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:30:54 -0600, Karl Townsend


Yeah, I think you've put your finger on the bottom line.
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wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/energy-dense-battery-could-enable-long-distance-electric-230100576.html Several groups are pursuing these ideas with silicon and germanium. http://m.technologyreview.com/energy/38395 /
$125 per KWH would be a significant boost, comparable to lead-acid cost with much less weight, if nanotube anodes can be produced cheaply enough. http://www.cheaptubesinc.com/carbon-nanotubes-prices.htm
jsw
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On Tue, 28 Feb 2012 10:52:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"

And the rest of us will stand back and cheer them on, making sure they have plenty of drinks and snacks while they do inscrutible things with their magical stuff. d8-)
I expect to see something really practical come out of all this within my lifetime. They'd better hurry....
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My cousin is working on this at Stanford. I'll tell him to step it up ;-)
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wrote:

And that explains why there is so much battery research going on, much of it government sponsored. It also explains, at least in part, why China was (and is) so hell-bent on controlling Tibet, home of the world's largest lithium reserves.
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 08:07:22 -0800, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human

Has GM paid back all of the $13.4B they got in the bailout yet? the last figure I saw was $8.1B repaid by April of 2010. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program Or are you referring to another subsidy? I'm not nearly as critical of the TARP program now that much of it has been paid back.

I can't believe they're trying to get $46k (merely -double- the cost of a Prius) for those things. http://tinyurl.com/7evjd2c
For $20k less, I'd go for a Toyota Camry Hybrid and be extremely happy. $25.9-27.4k. $2k upgrade from Prius to Camry? No brainer.

Makes one wonder how much they paid him for the article.

What are those, Gnu Yawk City prices? <sigh>

Yup.
--snip--
Now called the RUS, or Rural Utilities Service. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Electrification_Administration
-- Courage and perseverance have a magical talisman, before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish into air. -- John Quincy Adams
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wrote:

No. He says he pays $1.16 kWh for electricity. He's visually challenged, or he can't read an electric bill.
Another technically incompetant reporter. Sheesh.
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wrote:

Ha-ha! Jesus, Gunner, whose accounts are those? Are you paying $1.16 kWh for electricity? If so, maybe that's one of your problems....
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Of course not. Gummer has jumper cables going directly to the utility pole.
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EA


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On Sun, 26 Feb 2012 12:39:10 -0500, "Existential Angst"

heart running, or just that he runs his computers for free?
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Existential Angst wrote:

Why not? I heard that was what it took to wake you up. ;-)
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You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

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[...]
No way in the world that's true.
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You really don't know much at all, do you? NOBODY in America pays anywhere NEAR that for electricity.
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 12:54:04 -0500, Ed Huntress

Well, yeah, the idea behind the car design is that you'd use electricity for daily commuting, shopping at the local mall etc, but if you needed to go on a long trip (or if you failed to charge) you'd be able to use the same car, but in gasoline mode, so you can fill up in 3.5 minutes including pee break.
Makes perfect sense, since most of us drive most of our miles/klicks in a fairly small radius, but want the ability to go further occasionally (and we also worry about running out of charge).
At a higher level, there is a big issue with renewable energy in that storage (for when the wind isn't blowing or the sun isn't shining on the panels) is expensive. One could imagine, say, 100,000,000 cars plugged into the grid, and allowed to feed back, say, 20% of their charge into the grid overnight (the owner would be paid back for that energy and that service). Then, during the day, the cars could charge, say with solar, and the owner would be billed for the net.
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 14:01:38 -0500, Spehro Pefhany

Yeah. The viability of all of the electric-only and plug-in hybrid cars is based on certain patterns of use. For the all-electic, it's nothing but short hauls. At their present state of development, the plug-ins are based on a large portion of short hauls.
As it has been for 100 years, the limitiation of any of the electric configurations that run at least part of the time on electricity only is the batteries. The Volt, as I said, may be a bit ahead of its time. But the configuration and the expected use patterns are perfectly viable. They're just not *yet* cost-effective, for all but a limited number of drivers.

Those ideas are over my head. I read a paper or an article on using cars as storage for the grid, but there are so many variables that I haven't attempted to evaluate it.
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Take a look at http://www.priups.com for an interesting application. I know this guy. He's kind of a kook, and not the nicest guy top work for (I know a few of his ex-employees), but you have to admit, it's a cool idea, and he's been doing it for years.
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2012 14:32:41 -0800 (PST), rangerssuck

Very interesting. I had heard something about this, but I never looked into it. It sounds like a really good idea for someone like me, who has no desire and little need for a generator.
But I don't have a lot of desire for a Prius, either. <g> Maybe a Leaf or Leaf-like object as our second car, if my wife continues to work one mile away and I continue to work at home.
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On 2/28/2012 2:11 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:

10x20 feet on a house roof will generate ~2kW/Hr so less than 8 hours on a small rooftop array.
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Your numbers may be a little off (e.g. I think the panel costs are closer to $4.50 per watt), but not by much. Your overall point is clearly correct: that total cost of ownership is likely to be somewhere in the vicinity of ten grand per year. It's obviously cheaper to recharge the batteries from the grid than from a solar array, but even so, TCO is probably still on the north side of $5K per year.
By contrast, three years ago I paid $3300 for a used 1999 Saturn SL2 with 90K miles on it. Still going strong. Hasn't needed any significant repairs yet, not much beyond normal maintenance. My major operating expense so far has been gasoline, about $1500 a year (45K miles / 30mpg * $3 per gallon / 3 years). Counting a few minor repairs, tires, oil changes, and so on, my TCO to this point is about $1800 per year, and that's likely to go *down* as the initial purchase cost is amortized over more years, despite the increasing cost of gasoline. (Gas would have to average nearly ninety dollars a gallon, over the next seven years, before my ten-year TCO would reach $5K per year.)
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[...]

[...]
A buck-sixteen per kilowatt-hour? NOBODY pays that much for electricity.
So much for your idea of "quite accurate".
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