OT: knots

I like to practice knots.

My reference for knice knots is Ashley's Book of Knots, which I learned of thanks to Ted Edwards on this group years ago.

I much prefer rigging with rope to screwing around with nylon straps and ratchets, and I have it kinda down to a system. Attributes of a good knot include strength, reliability and ease of tying, but also include ease of untying. Some otherwise good knots jam under load and/or if they get wet can become very difficult to untie after the fact. That's a PITA when I intend to save the rope for future use.

Many "Boy Scout" knots and even many knots routinely employed by sailors are not nearly as good as some less-known alternatives. Example: the only variant of the bowline I'd ever use would be the bowline-on-bight and I don't think I've ever used that on an actual application. The bowline is OK if under contstant tension but it can shake loose quite easily. The "square" knot aka reef knot can be tied under tension so it's useful for wrapping packages (put your finger there, please, Dear) or reefing sails quickly, but it's otherwise a treacherous bend. (A bend is any knot used to join lengths of line.) The reef knot will upset and fail under significant load. Don't suspend your breakable self over Doomgurgle Gulch or from high in a tree with line that depends on a reef knot.

The bend I favor for my primary repertoire is the Hunter's bend. It is not easy to get right and very easy to get wrong at first, but it is easy to inspect and I've practiced it so I can about tie it in my sleep, hanging upside down in a driving rain and probably half smashed though I've no recent or anticipated need to tie reliable knots under those condx.

There is a method way of tying it that can be done in total darkness, which may be why the SAS (british Special Air Services, an elite commando force) adopted it as a standard.

Other good bends are the sheetbend and the Carrick bend, but the sheetbend can shake loose easily (being a very close cousin of the bowline) and the Carrick bend, while neat-looking, can get rather lumpy in any but the smallest line and is not as strong as the Hunter's bend.

Yesterday I discovered a new knot that I am adding to my repertoire. It will very probably replace the span loop for quickly making mid-line loops that are so handy in rigging and lashing, though Ted was a strong advocate of the span loop I've used for years.

It is the "alpine butterfly", used by climbers for creating sites for caribiners in a drop line. This is not to be confused with the "Venus butterfly" which was a technique for giving a woman intense sexual pleasure, hinted at but never quite revealed on "L.A .Law" years ago.

Another good thing about this knot is that it can be what I call a "method knot": there's a way to tie it that can be drilled into muscle memory, making it about a nobrainer to tie when there's actual work to be done. That may be why the SAS liked the Hunter's bend.

Threre is exactly one correct topology for any given knot. There are many ways to get it wrong, only one way to get it right. A "method knot" enables employment of muscle memory making it to augment visual memory of making it and seeing that it is right. Ease of "snapshot" inspection for correctnesss is an attribute of a useful knot. Two quick looks, less than 1 second, tell whether it's right or not.

Mary calls me "Don Knots" as I sit out on the deck in the shade or sunshine depending on temp, lookin' at the lake with my icey tea or Coke, my book, and my knot-practice bits of nylon and polypropylene line. Polyprop isn't as strong as nylon but it's considerably softer and more flexible, more abrasion resistant and more UV resistant. And it floats. That's why they use it for waterski tow line. It's also very nice for flagpoles and for lashing loads.

We miss Lois, our recently deceased neighbor.

Reply to
Don Foreman
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Thanks Don - another well composed "letter from Lake Wobegon" - by a curious coincidence, I went to a trial antenna mast erecting day, and got taught the bowline knot , come home, turn this thing on, and theres your exposition on the subject.. This brings my sum total of knots to..........three....

Will chase up the Hunters Knot you mentioned.

Andrew VK3BFA.

Reply to
Andrew VK3BFA

Hi Don,

I'm partial to the sheet bend - with an extra turn to lock it in. It doesn't shake loose then. It is preferred when the two lines are different sizes, but still works well if they are the same.

There are a half dozen or so that a lubber must learn to be promoted to mate (at least aboard my boat :) )

Reef Knot (Square knot to the squares) Bowlin Round turn and a hitch or two. Sheet bend Figure 8 Cleat hitch (not really a knot or a bend, but you have to learn it) Clove Hitch The next trick is knowing what to use when!

Animated knots - by Grog...

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My latest rope trick is splicing.

A young couple down the pier gave me a full set of Samson fids, et.al. for my birthday this year (how did I get to be 60 years old?) and said I could practice on them - they supplied the rope and I make new dock lines for their boat.

I've got 3 laid down cold. No problem from 1/4" to 1-1/4".

6 strand is the same, but they aren't coming out as pretty as 3 yet.

Double braid - now thats were the real fun starts!

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I haven't tried splicing stainless steel cable yet. It looks like a nice simple way to bleed a lot!

Reply to
cavelamb

Nice read.

You didn't even mention my favorite class of knots with names like blood, surgeons, polaner, clinch, improved clinch, snell, trilene, etc. I practice these till perfect cause it really hurts when the big one gets away.

Karl

Reply to
Karl Townsend

You should also learn the Hangmans Knot. It may come in handy when you decide to take a Big Step for Mankind.

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Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch

Reply to
Gunner Asch

Nice piece Don. BTW, does anyone know what ever became of Ted Edwards?

My reference for knice knots is Ashley's Book of Knots, which I learned of thanks to Ted Edwards on this group years ago.

I much prefer rigging with rope to screwing around with nylon straps and ratchets, and I have it kinda down to a system. Attributes of a good knot include strength, reliability and ease of tying, but also include ease of untying. Some otherwise good knots jam under load and/or if they get wet can become very difficult to untie after the fact. That's a PITA when I intend to save the rope for future use.

Many "Boy Scout" knots and even many knots routinely employed by sailors are not nearly as good as some less-known alternatives. Example: the only variant of the bowline I'd ever use would be the bowline-on-bight and I don't think I've ever used that on an actual application. The bowline is OK if under contstant tension but it can shake loose quite easily. The "square" knot aka reef knot can be tied under tension so it's useful for wrapping packages (put your finger there, please, Dear) or reefing sails quickly, but it's otherwise a treacherous bend. (A bend is any knot used to join lengths of line.) The reef knot will upset and fail under significant load. Don't suspend your breakable self over Doomgurgle Gulch or from high in a tree with line that depends on a reef knot.

The bend I favor for my primary repertoire is the Hunter's bend. It is not easy to get right and very easy to get wrong at first, but it is easy to inspect and I've practiced it so I can about tie it in my sleep, hanging upside down in a driving rain and probably half smashed though I've no recent or anticipated need to tie reliable knots under those condx.

There is a method way of tying it that can be done in total darkness, which may be why the SAS (british Special Air Services, an elite commando force) adopted it as a standard.

Other good bends are the sheetbend and the Carrick bend, but the sheetbend can shake loose easily (being a very close cousin of the bowline) and the Carrick bend, while neat-looking, can get rather lumpy in any but the smallest line and is not as strong as the Hunter's bend.

Yesterday I discovered a new knot that I am adding to my repertoire. It will very probably replace the span loop for quickly making mid-line loops that are so handy in rigging and lashing, though Ted was a strong advocate of the span loop I've used for years.

It is the "alpine butterfly", used by climbers for creating sites for caribiners in a drop line. This is not to be confused with the "Venus butterfly" which was a technique for giving a woman intense sexual pleasure, hinted at but never quite revealed on "L.A .Law" years ago.

Another good thing about this knot is that it can be what I call a "method knot": there's a way to tie it that can be drilled into muscle memory, making it about a nobrainer to tie when there's actual work to be done. That may be why the SAS liked the Hunter's bend.

Threre is exactly one correct topology for any given knot. There are many ways to get it wrong, only one way to get it right. A "method knot" enables employment of muscle memory making it to augment visual memory of making it and seeing that it is right. Ease of "snapshot" inspection for correctnesss is an attribute of a useful knot. Two quick looks, less than 1 second, tell whether it's right or not.

Mary calls me "Don Knots" as I sit out on the deck in the shade or sunshine depending on temp, lookin' at the lake with my icey tea or Coke, my book, and my knot-practice bits of nylon and polypropylene line. Polyprop isn't as strong as nylon but it's considerably softer and more flexible, more abrasion resistant and more UV resistant. And it floats. That's why they use it for waterski tow line. It's also very nice for flagpoles and for lashing loads.

We miss Lois, our recently deceased neighbor.

Reply to
Robert Swinney

Ahhh, yeah. That's real nice.

Reply to
Dennis

Don, your writing style is really interesting - relaxing to read as well. When I see one of your posts I always read it.

You really ought to setup a little blog page somewhere & update it when you feel the need. I reckon we'd all get a lot of enjoyment reading what you've got to tell.

Reply to
Dennis

I learned to rig in diving school in 1974. We practiced in the dark, as that was what working conditions were like. OSHA says NEVER use a rope to hoist, but it's done all the time, and like you say, if it's done right it's the best thing. We used to hoist boards using a timber hitch. When I taught knots to the new guys, they looked like they had just scored with some pretty girl. Doing something that most people can't do. I still amaze people with my rigging skills, and when someone wants something tied right, they call me.

The bowline that creates two bights is a useful knot, but I like the one where the two loops cannot slip. On the bight, IIRC. The other is the Spanish or French. Tons of simple knots, hitches, etc, that work great. Backsplicing and eye splicing always gets me oohs and ahs, particularly when I just do it in about three minutes, and toss it out there.

One of my favorite knots is the sheet bend, as it doesn't spill like the square knot. You know the thief knot?

Steve

visit my blog at

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Reply to
Steve B

A guy can do a LOT with the set of basic knots you mentioned.

Steve

visit my blog at

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Reply to
Steve B

Those are all monofilament knots. There's even special knots now for the firewire (?) new mono stuff.

Steve

visit my blog at

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Reply to
Steve B

You may also like "The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Knots & Ropework", by Geoffrey Budworth. Can sometimes be found on the discount rack at Borders.

I have a few pamphlets from the Plymouth Rope Company dated 1946 with knots such as the midshipman's hitch, Spanish bowline, double bowline, and "How to tie a lariat" by Toots Mansfield. Maybe I'll scan and post a link

Reply to
Rick

Needing to know more, I went here:

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Which says that it can jam under moderate strain and refers to the _very_ similar Zeppelin bend:

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which it says does not ("jam proof", it says).

Bob

BTW - a nice variation on the square (reef) knot is the surgeon's knot, which puts an extra twist on the initial throw and makes it more secure while you're "throwing" the return. When Mary's not there to put her thumb on it.

Reply to
Bob Engelhardt

SNIPPED

And for those who need to see a knot before they can tie it.

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Being a FD member and an EMT who does confined space and high angle stuff a bit I try to keep in practice as well.

Also use many knots while fishing. If you ever think tying a knot with a good rope is hard try tying some of the braided fishing line you can buy!!!!

Reply to
Steve W.

Are you using PowerPro or something else, Steve? I haven't bitten that bullet yet.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

Karl you need to learn the best Knot for fishing.... It's called a .223 knot. No hook needed but you do need a good net!!!

One of the places I go fishing a lot has some huge brown and rainbow as well as some good bass and pike in there. I have seen 20" and up rainbows swim past. Last weekend I watched a little pike (about 6" or so) sit in the shadow of my wader foot for a while. Didn't know if it was just hiding or thought I might make a good snack!

Reply to
Steve W.

If you're going for grouper in 75 to 200 feet of water, use Suffix and a live baby yellow tail. You can feel the 'tail getting scared even before the bite.

There's a real good spot to do this just a couple miles out from KCB

karl

Reply to
Karl Townsend

I'm not. In salt water, I'm fishing for bluefish in around 10' of water. The issue for me is casting, from jetties and the beach, but I'm not sure I want to put up with the complications -- like buying a $35 conversion kit for my spinning reel, and figuring out how to hoist 10-lb. choppers up a rock wall without cutting my hands to ribbons. I've seen the scars some guys have gotten from that line.

Good. Enjoy it.

Reply to
Ed Huntress

My dad used to make bowstrings for sale, with a flemish splice in each end to form the eye that engaged the bow. This was long before compound bows, when archery was done with longbows and recurve bows like those made by Fred Bear in Grayling MI.

Reply to
Don Foreman

Palomar knot! Works on monofiliament, Fusion, Braided Spectra like Spiderwire and PowerPro, etc etc.

Reply to
Don Foreman

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