OT: Price fixing by the oil refineries?

This didn't seem to make it on the main stream news channels today. I guess if you want US news you have to go overseas...

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/17/congress-refiners-investigation-idUKN1714817720110517
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Richard Lamb
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CaveLamb wrote:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/17/congress-refiners-investigation-idUKN1714817720110517

Spoke too soon...
http://www.economist.com/node/18682298
But the Democrats preferred remedies are even less effective. They propose stripping oil firms of various tax breakssomething that could not possibly lower the price of petrol, but might make angry motorists feel better nonetheless. Happily, the changes they have in mind are too inconsequential to deter much investment either, given the high price of oil, although they could dent spending on natural gas. Mr Obama, meanwhile, has set his sights on speculators, a habitual if elusive scapegoat, creating a special new task-force to hunt them down.
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The reason for taxing the oil companies has more do with raising revenue than with lowering pump prices.
Personally, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever why oil companies ( especially the multi-nationals ) who exploit US offshore energy resources and sell to the global market should be exempt from taxation.
As far as the "high price of oil", one needs to realize that increasing the global supply merely results in reduced production rates by OPEC members.
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PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

Which results in less income for them . And I'm all for that . Especially if the difference can be made up from domestic resources . -- Snag Learning keeps you young !
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in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Interesting how in Sept 2008, one can trace the sudden, and rather steep (nay, precipitous) decline in crude oil prices. Started about a day or two after President Bush signed an executive order lifting those restrictions on off shore drilling which were policy and not matters of law. Going going ... Sept 19 "Cushing Spot" oil is 104 a barrel, 90 days later it is $36 a barrel.     Caused a lot of speculators to lose their shirts too. Hmm ... maybe someone could explain this to Barak, using small words and lots of pictures.
tschus pyotr
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on Tue, 17 May 2011 19:54:58 -0500 typed

Why do you think he just proposed new drilling in Alaska and offshore?
It has nothing to do with supply and demand. The supply won't come for years -- and will be trivial when it comes. But the futures market in oil acts like it's on amphetamines and is paranoid schizophrenic.
It's another failed market. There is no real market there at all. There is mostly speculation, and cartels.
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"john B." wrote:

Fuck you. I air condition one room, and drive less than 3,000 miles a year. My electric bill last month was $71.56, and the air conditioner is set at 80 degrees because several medications aren't supposed to be refrigerated, or stored above 85 F.
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On Fri, 20 May 2011 13:53:57 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"

I'd call it rationalization. You can store medications in a fridge cheaper then air-con a whole room - the military did it in the tropics as late as the 70's as I saw them then.
But you prove my point. You could get along with a 40 watt light in each room, literally millions of people do. You drive 3,000 miles, or nearly 10 miles per day. You could buy a bicycle.
The point is that the U.S. energy requirements can be significantly reduced; if people actually want to. But it is obvious that while a great deal of lip service is paid to the subject no one actually wants to change their life style.
Quite simply, as out comptroller once said in regard to a company cost reduction effort, "Cost cutting is anything that doesn't apply to me".
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"john B." wrote:

It costs more to run a fridge in an non air conditioned room than one that is, since the heat gets trapped. My A/C ran 24/7 for the last month, and used less than $24 in electricity. The previous electric bill was a little over $48

Actually, it's 13 watts.

You go buy a lousy bicycle. I have circulation problems in my legs, and I can't ride a bicycle. There is no way out of my subdivision without riding on a busy highway with no bike lanes, and I'm not suicidal. There is no way in hell I would even consider a bicycle ride for the 65 miles to the VA hospital for some of my appointments. Any other time I drive somewhere it is to bring home a load of groceries, or other heavy items that aren't practical with a bicycle. Some of those trips are to take other Disabled Veterans to their doctor's appointments.

The point is that you want others to change, when you don't know what the hell you're talking about or they minimum requirements for them to live. Do without A/C. Toss out your refrigerator and don't ever bathe for all I care, but mind your own damn business.

And you show it with your dumb assed comments. BTW, why did they out your comptroller?
I recycle a lot of used electronics by repairing it and giving it away. I built things out of used materials, like the 30+ square feet of tongue & grove lumber I am making from used pallets to repair a damaged floor.
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On Sat, 21 May 2011 03:14:16 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"

Sure, any fool puts the fridge out on the back porch in the shade. At least that is what my grand mother said.

Goodness but you are festy.
But the fact still remains that it is possible to significantly reduce U.S. energy use; if it is really desired.

They didn't he retired after about 20 years on the job.

What in the world does that have to do with the U.S. Energy usage?
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Gunner Asch wrote:

I don't think any go above 45 F if they aren't turned off.
I bought a couple small Peltier modules on Ebay to make a medical cooler.
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item '0737234020>
I was looking for one of those small pop coolers that held a six pack, but decided to build one with a battery backup so I can take it with me if I have to evacuate during the hurricane season. I haven't found a big enough piece of aluminum for the inside piece. I plan on using a can of foam in insulation and a small fan to draw air past the hot side heatsink that can be covered when it's turned off. that way the insulation and a pound or two of aluminum should keep it within the safe range for hours on a hot day. It will have a couple temperature settings, one for normal use, and a lower temperature to chill it if you know you will be away from any power for a while. I will be able to run it from the truck, or one of the jump-start packs, as well.
I bought a couple of these snap in thermometers to display the internal temperature:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item50364146095
I already have several of these for other items around the house:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-12V-6A-72W-AC-POWER-SUPPLY-ADAPTER-LCD-MONITOR-/180670017980?pt=Laptop_Adapters_Chargers&hash=item2a10c5b1bc
I learned as a kid to make sure to buy spare parts when I build a one-off. :)
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You would be better advised to pack a lot of Brown Gravy mix. You can trade it for food after 3 or 4 days because that's how long people will take to get sick of canned and dried food.
Schilling is good...
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wrote:

Yes.
We were working on-re wiring the hospital at Udorn, Thailand and had to have a "guide" in certain sections of the hospital. One room had some glass sided refrigerators with bottles of red stuff in them. I took a closer look and they were full of blood, marked "Thai blood A+", "American Blood C-" and things like that.
I remember it as I asked about the segregation and was told that putting American into a Thai was like giving him a shot of water as the Thai blood contained significant amounts of anti-bodies that the Americans didn't have.
The fridges were about the size of a normal household fridge and I imagine that someone who wanted to keep medicine could buy one and I suspect that blood is a substance that must be kept under very specific temperature.
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"john B." wrote:

And cost about $5,000.
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On Sun, 22 May 2011 00:41:21 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"

I have no idea. We just pulled wires :-)
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"john B." wrote:

Anything made for medical use is very expensive, and the glass door isn't energy efficient. I've seen too many of those stainless and glass medicine coolers while waiting for my doctor at the VA. They ran almost constantly, in a 75 F room. How well do you think they would work when it's over 100 F outside, and almost that hot inside?
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On Sun, 22 May 2011 19:01:12 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"

The ones I saw had double glass walls and doors, nor did they seem to run all the time as we had to disconnect the room for a short period and when we reconnected they all started and that was very noticeable. I assume that had they been running nearly contentiously we'd have noticed as being a hospital we were aware that it might not be the best plan to disconnect things with out asking first.
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"john B." wrote:

It depends on how full they are, and how often they have to be opened. At times, they were opened every few minutes, or had just been restocked by a medical courier from the VA hospital. other factors, like where they are placed can affect how much they run. If they are out in the open, they can get rid of the waste heat a lot easier, but a lot sit against a wall, or in a tight corner with very little free airflow, because there just isn't enough free space to do otherwise. They can be powered down for a couple hours, but will reach the upper thermal limit sooner or later. When running, they are closer to the lower thermal limit in case the power goes out.
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PrecisionmachinisT wrote:

Well, the senate blocked revoking those tax breaks today...
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Richard Lamb
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I'm not at all surprised.
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