OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you

Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for safety.

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn

Reply to
Joseph Gwinn
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So they say that minis fare badly in collision with heavier cars. That's understandable.

I am wondering about something? Does fuel efficiency of those tiny cars come from then being small in dimensions, or light in weight?

I suspect that it is mostly the former, due to improved wind resistance and such.

If so, perhaps the tiny economy cars could be made heavier, but kept to the same dimensions? Such as, perhaps, the frame could be made from solid steel instead of tubing.

Reply to
Ignoramus14774

No, they said teh *single car* death rate was twice the norm.

Both, but at around town speeds, it's almost all about weight.

The stop and go aspect of city traffic means constantly accelerating up to speed - then stopping. Then accelerating again.

Lighter weights (actually less mass) takes less energy to accelerate.

Only at high speeds. 60 - 70 MPH on the highway verses 20 to 30 around town.

Google "aerodynamics of bluff bodies" for the ugly details.

They need "crush space" to allow structure to dissipate energy while collapsing. That's hard to come by when your feet reach the front bumper...

Richard

Reply to
cavelamb

Interesting and I have been following this.

Whether the American public understands it or not, smaller more efficient vehicles are coming and are long over due.

If anyone thought gas prices will stay low, they need to do some research.

Emissions are another big issue that was buried the last eight years that is now being dealt with.

And from the looks of it, American companies will not be the producers of these vehicles.

TMT

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Indeed, it's high time people pay for their liability coverage by the pound.

If people want to drive an IRON chariot, let them pay the price in insurance and the additonal damage they cause in an accident.

Reply to
Tim

I remember the exact same rationale in 1985.

A lady engineer drove a monster tank of a Caddy. It was the largest one made for people.

Other engineers drove sporty cars.

She got heck from them - but one after another 'others' were in bad, bad crushing problems. She was T-Boned one day and the other car was crushed. She needed paint and a little Bondo.

Larger mass wins. Battery cars - lead acid types are death unto the other cars.

Martin

Ignoramus14774 wrote:

Reply to
Martin H. Eastburn

The fix is simple. The operator "cockpit" shall only be allowed to be in front of the bumper. This shall be law for all vehicles greater then 2000 lbs. This cockpit shall be constructed only of thin plastic and Plexiglas. When the operator does something stupid, they are kill immediately, removing them from the gene pool. Those that drive smartly do not kill any one else. This stops the "I'm invincible" mentality where they make left turns in front of motor cycles, or economy cars. This applies to any thing over 2000 lbs. semi-trucks, ag-tractors, etc. fixing this problem of idiots that drive with out consequences. ignator

Reply to
ignator

my experience is different - though the small cars I've driven for decades have been high end ones not inexpensive econoboxes - it is much cheaper to buy a 10 year old excellent car than a brand new cheapie

Reply to
Bill Noble

From what I've seen around here, the luxury car is kept for three years and traded in for new. It then goes out as a taxi for about six years until it becomes un-economical to keep on the road 24/7, at which point it gets cleaned up, painted and put on the used car lot and sold to a single mother with three kids on welfare. Of course she can't keep up the payments, repairs and 5MPG city gas cost so it gets repossessed and resold about three more times before going for recycling. Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Reply to
Gerald Miller

The damage to the front of my pickup is from a small car backing in to the front. Dark and rainy. So you think the small cars can get away with killing and mayhem?

Reply to
Calif Bill

What about people who physically can't fit into those tiny 'death on wheels' toys because of longer than average legs, or being disabled? Every small vehicle I looked at the last time was impossible to drive because my knees hit the dash, or I couldn't get in or out without help, because of so little room under the steering wheel that I couldn't use a cane to help me in or out of the driver's seat?

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Perhaps American companies will produce the armament for these vehicle?

Reply to
Don Foreman

there certainly are "smaller" cars that are easy to get in and out of - they just don't have them here in the good old USA because by god, if were were meant to ride in small cars he wouldn't have given us high fat fast food.

ok, seriously, there are some - for example, the Fiat Doblo, but they aren't imported.

Reply to
Bill Noble

The new, redesigned VW Beetle is suppose to be easy for oversized people to get in/out of (shrug).

Reply to
Leon Fisk

Almost right Gerry.

Around here it's the "wannabee" Financial Planners and ReMax realtors that drive the"used and abused" (5 year old or older)Caddies and Conties, old Bimmers and even older Mercedes. See one of them and 9:1 its one of the above or a "has-been".

Reply to
clare

The original one had a lot of headroom too. I used to carry a table saw to the job upside down in the back seat. It was a convertible which made loading the saw easy, but the top would close over the legs.

I think it's still running near Concord NH. 1965 1200, dark green, top from a later model, plywood fold-flat rear seat, hatch added to access the starter and engine mounting bolts.

Reply to
Jim Wilkins

I am quite happy with my current econobox, but then, I am a somewhat large/normal (5'8" - 225lb.) non crippled 70 yr. old male. I haven't tried the new version yet but my '05 Toy Echo suits me fine. It also gives me 48 miles per (imperial) gallon on a 400 mile trip. Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Reply to
Gerald Miller

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in news:wNWdncnIlM-v_HTUnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.com:

Hrm.... I drive a 95 Dodge Neon, I'm 6'-5", 240 with bad knees...and don't have any issue with it being too small. It gets 33 mpg in mixed city/highway driving even though it's an automatic and it's got 200,000 miles on it.

Reply to
Anthony

Good for you. Who is the 'crippled 70 yr. old male'?

I drive a Dodge Dakota because I usually have a lot to haul. I do most of my shopping twice a month, and put off errands until i can make a loop around town for three or more. Sometimes the truck isn't even started for two weeks, or more. If I drove an econobox, I would have to tow a trailer most days or make a lot more trips. Two trips at 48 mpg come close to a single trip in the pickup truck.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

My problem is swelling in my legs, and the fact that I sometimes have to lift them into the truck with both hands. That can't be done in a lot of vehicles. In fact, I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan. It was an electronics shop on wheels to do commercial sound & industrial electronics repairs. It had a 292 CID six cylinder and five speed manual transmission. I could haul over two tons and still get 20 MPG.

I'm happy that you like your neon, but I have driven mostly trucks since '72. I don't do any joy riding, and have driven less than 7,000 in the last 18 months. A good chunk of that was running errands for my dad & step mom after each was in the hospital three times each.

Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Not many men my age enjoy my degree of mobility. Gerry :-)} London, Canada

Reply to
Gerald Miller

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